Listening to the wrong players

#61 - Oct. 17, 2013, 6:09 p.m.

There is no single part of our player base that we should or do listen to more than the other. Every player has equal opportunity to say how they feel, and the “4%-10%” is not excluded in that. What we “listen” to is reason and objective feedback.

Do note though, what we listen to != what we implement (at least not right away). We read your suggestions all the time, but sometimes those suggestions are not in line with the pillars of our game. Sometimes those suggestions are ill-informed. Sometimes those suggestions are selfish (buff x class “cuz it’s my fave and I want to roll over everyone”). Sometimes those suggestions are so great that it inspires us to add a new project to the backlog. Sometimes those suggestions are already a part of the project we are working on.

Most of the time, we can’t immediately implement good suggestions. These things take time and discussion. These things have to be weighed against other things and prioritized.

All of this doesn’t matter though, if the 4%-10% spends little to no time giving us feedback for one reason or another (inactive, don’t care, think we don’t listen even if that’s wrong, etc.).

Ideally, you would all feel comfortable and willing to share your objective feedback, but that is not always the case, and that is not something we can control.

#65 - Oct. 17, 2013, 6:19 p.m.

The patch has been out for 2 days. There were so many changes that we really need to let things settle and let people find their way. Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot, and nobody can know how the community will adapt to the change until they adapt to the change, which usually takes longer than a couple days.

Any feedback on the changes at this point is knee-jerk, because there simply has not been enough time to gauge how things will be until it settles.

#157 - Oct. 18, 2013, 1:02 p.m.

Sensotix.4106:

Reesha.7901:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The patch has been out for 2 days. There were so many changes that we really need to let things settle and let people find their way. Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot, and nobody can know how the community will adapt to the change until they adapt to the change, which usually takes longer than a couple days.

Maybe this is a bad place to post a suggestion, as I am not an experienced tournament player. ^^

I think it would be rather awesome if the top teams could test balance changes. A custom arena maybe, where those teams could play matches against one another, before the changes went live.

That way, feedback from experienced players could be handed directly to the developers. Balance would be tested by experienced players, and the rest of us would still have the option to voice our opinions afterwards to cower anything not discovered through testing.

I am sure I am not the first to think of this

i agree 100% !

If you reference my first post, you will see that I have a bit in there:

“All of this doesn’t matter though, if the 4%-10% spends little to no time giving us feedback for one reason or another (inactive, don’t care, think we don’t listen even if that’s wrong, etc.).”

Most of the 10% has direct access to the developers already. Some take advantage of it, most do not. We can’t control whether or not they give us feedback, but we definitely give them ample opportunity to do so.

#160 - Oct. 18, 2013, 1:19 p.m.

Darkdanjal.3401:

you are listening but to the wrong players and its no surprise little to no top players arent you giving you feedback, you are just mindlessly making changes without even making an effort to talking to long term players before and after a patch.

And btw you can control if they are giving feedback by making an effort, by inviting them to Skype talks about balancing, you devs are making more and more excuses on how making time to make changes and Im sick of it tbh, talk to you players, COMMUNICATE, you arent doing that, YOU ARE THE DEVS we are not, you are the makers but for some reason you still think you are the masters of you own game in PVP, you arent playing countless of solo games or team games you are just observing, you need to TALK to your players and not just on the forums

If you want to have a discussion with the devs, starting off by insulting us is not the best route. This is just silly, I’m not going to continue talking about how we’re not talking to you.

We invite them to Ventrilo chats every week, btw.

#161 - Oct. 18, 2013, 1:24 p.m.

Sepreh.5924:

I’m sorry if it has already been asked but has there been any discussion/any plan to create a public test server that is solely used to look at PvP balance changes?

A PTR is something that the PvP and WvW teams (especially) would definitely greatly benefit from. It is something that we have had many discussions about. The reality is that creating a PTR (code-wise) is an incredibly difficult task for our game. That’s not to say we have dismissed the idea, though.

Thanks for the feedback!

#173 - Oct. 18, 2013, 2:12 p.m.

Reesha.7901:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Most of the 10% has direct access to the developers already. Some take advantage of it, most do not. We can’t control whether or not they give us feedback, but we definitely give them ample opportunity to do so.

Allie Murdock.8152:

We invite them to Ventrilo chats every week, btw.

I am sorry if this is common knowledge, I was certainly not aware that direct access exist between top players and the developers. I am glad that it does.

I wouldn’t exactly say it’s common knowledge, since you weren’t the only one who didn’t know. I believe Jonathan Sharp mentioned it at one point during a Guild Wars 2 Guru State of the Game discussion. I can’t remember which episode it was from, but they have uploaded all of the SotG videos, so you could watch them if you want!

#176 - Oct. 18, 2013, 2:16 p.m.

Just to clarify: I’m not saying all top players don’t bother to talk to us. Most of them come and go, but haven’t shown up consistently for quite some time.

I’m also not blaming them for this either. They have lives, they have their frustrations with the state of the game, etc. Some of them continue to show up, and that is great.

#177 - Oct. 18, 2013, 2:18 p.m.

Reesha.7901:

All of those suggestions and Ventrilo talks are not necessarily posted on the forums though.
I dunno. I think many of the knows players have been active on the forum at least. I know I have seen both Xeph and Phantaram post and Helseth (who does not have access to the forum), even had followers to post his rants and suggestions.

I am not a top player nor am I a developer, but I don’t think there has been a lack of suggestions.

• Lower the damage
• Play smart (less spam)
• Risk vs. reward
• Obvious animations and less instant casts to give options for counter play.

Those I can remember from the top of my head, and I am certain there are many more.

Yes, at times some of these players have made posts, and we acknowledge those posts or follow them very closely every time.

#182 - Oct. 18, 2013, 2:24 p.m.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Instead of anet listening to people who have a deep connection to the game they play, you guys seem to listen, instead, to the players who whine about how their main class is bad at pvp (or is too hard to play in pvp) and so they need to be buffed. In other words, exactly the opposite of what you said in your initial post. So we get a game that seems, at least to me, sponsored by Kraft where the top builds are the cheesiest in the game.

You say that there have been major changes, but if you guys were actually listening, the major consensus is that there was NO major changes to the meta outside of immob stacking. The same cheese builds are still significantly viable. The only major changes are cosmetic ones involving trait selection – thats it.

Couple things: first, we do listen to top players, and many of the things we’ve implemented are things they have asked for as well.

Second: you say that the major consensus is that there were no major changes. Yet, in this same thread, you criticize us for listening too much to the 90%. This is very confusing messaging. You’re telling us that we should listen to a select few for balance, but then listen to the majority when they say there was no balance.

I also want to point out that a cosmetic change that brings major awareness to what traits actually do can help players to better understand those traits and therefore create new builds in a more informed manner. Sometimes a change looks one way on the surface, but deep down is more elaborate.

#186 - Oct. 18, 2013, 2:34 p.m.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.