@ JonPeters and other Devs

#1 - Sept. 2, 2013, 7:29 p.m.

I understand TL;DR but please read it all it’ll take 5 minutes and voice your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on this post below

Hey seeing as every thread keeps getting deleted destroyed the 90% bad posts but also the 10% constructive ones Im starting my own thread in direct response to JonPeters regarding the need to know finer details of what our problems with PvP are…" the devil is in the details " as you put it Jon.

This may not be 100% accurate but as a GW2 veteran in all aspects of the game here is my take.

1) Communication – It appears there is a lack of communication with playerbase and higher up devs like Colin Johansen ( spelling? sorry ) regarding the state of PvP. With the playerbase you are worried if your behind schedule you may get alternative outburst saying " We were promised x you didnt deliver on time /rage ". However I feel that majority of the PvP community would rather know what your working on and you be open with us and then have to wait say 2 weeks to a month if you are behind on a certain feature etc. Than be kept in complete darkness. Yes there will be those mad about you missing a deadline so to speak but communication > darkness.

Regarding communication to higher devs, as PAX showed it appears that the higher up devs such as Colin aren’t aware of the state PvP is in. You need to be vocal and assertive and constantly be going to them explaining current issues, telling them what you are working on and some ideas that the community have thrown out. Now if you have told them but Colin still wanted to say " Nothing exciting is coming for PvP we wanted to make a game thats easy to follow along and we are happy with what our PvP has accomplished " . ( I’m paraphrasing ). Then you need to keep saying to them…well no. Theres some major issues here. What Colin could / should have said to the PvP question. " Great question we definitely understand there are some key issues in PvP at the moment but we are working closely with our PvP team to iron them out, having experienced both feedback from our players and devs over this year we are still proud of the accomplishments we have made so far regarding PvP and plan to keep moving forward to make PvP in this game even greater. "

That statement to me, is still PR loaded and delicate. But it acknowledges our concerns. Now thats assuming they are aware of PvP issues but still chose to make that statement…In my humble opinion that is a problem with those higher up devs making a questionable choice of words…Heres the flip side perhaps the higher up devs don’t even know the real issues with PvP? If thats the case then Jon that falls on the PvP dev team in not telling them. Again goes back to being vocal and assertive. Get all up in their grill!

ColinJohanson

#8 - Sept. 2, 2013, 10:27 p.m.

Since you called me out by name you get called back yo! Just wanted to point out that quote from PAX about PvP was not from me, though reading the article it sure sounded that way so I can see where it would be confusing

I don’t think PvP is done by any means. We’ve had some great successes this year, the total PvP population has gone up tremendously as the year has progressed and is much larger than Gw1’s PvP ever was at it’s height, which is nice to see since the game hasn’t launched in half the world yet. Spectator mode and custom arenas have opened the door for some really exciting growth and moments in 2013 in particular. We still have a long ways to go to get to where we’re going, but considering where we stood when we launched with almost no features in PvP I think we’ve come a long ways. We are of course always continuing to watch and listen to feedback, things like the addition of solo queue are direct results of that.

As a reminder, we did a blog post back in July that summarizes our major focuses for Gw2 in the 2nd half of 2013, if you scroll down to the PvP section you can find what some of our major focuses are. We told you what we’re working on priority wise already, once we have specific details we’ll share those as well : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

From that list, we’ve already completed some of those tasks since July. As we said back at the end of July, one of our major focuses is on that sense of reward and progression for the 2nd half of 2013. And since they are game-wide and not covered in the PvP section: of course our skills and balance team will be continuing to update and balance now that the tournament final is over.

ColinJohanson

#14 - Sept. 2, 2013, 10:50 p.m.

fugazi.5139:
I don’t know why I find this so hard to believe considering Gw1’s PvP was so much more active. So much more fun. Just so much more in general. I may have busted a vein laughing at this statement. What all in Gw2 do these numbers include? WvW,HotJoins,tPvP and sPvP. That’s just insane. If it is so active why do you face the same 5 teams in a row in tPvP? If the excuse is the match up to the ladder that is a whole other subject considering the ladder is so majorly flawed.

We Gw1 super-fans tend to remember things with rose colored glasses, I know I do at times since it’s one of my fondest life memories over those years!

People tend to play in different places in Gw2, hot join, solo and team queue and custom arenas combined account for a much larger population than GvG/Team/Random/HA arena ever had most of the time. This doesn’t include WvW, which population wise blows the roof off on top of this.

One thing I think that factors into it sometimes is region based play, Gw1 had the entire world matched up simultaneously so even during off hours, you’d catch people from other parts of the world. With region separation in Gw2, you get people in your region so it’s much harder to gauge the total population.

It’s ok if you like Gw1 better, but to dismiss Gw2 entirely for that reason would be a mistake. (not saying you are, but some folks do!)

ColinJohanson

#18 - Sept. 2, 2013, 11:06 p.m.

BrunoBRS.5178:
is there nothing that can be done to merge the EU and NA PvP? like, if not a merge (lag issues would be intense), then maybe work on allowing PvPers to guest on EU (or NA if they’re european) on off-peak hours, kinda like GW1 districts.

My understanding is this would require a total overhaul of the way the game systems save data and player interactions across worlds, plus put really large latency and trans-cont cable down-time issues into play. All of that being said, it may not be impossible, but it’s not going to happen any time soon given other priorities. It’d be super cool though even if it was just for PvP, I always loved that aspect of Gw1 when I saw we were up against a Korean team and I knew we were probably doomed.

ColinJohanson

#20 - Sept. 2, 2013, 11:12 p.m.

fugazi.5139:
may be it is GW2 PvP +WvW.
It has to be.

Extra fun fact: the population of WvW who plays any given week regularly is larger than the entire population of all of Gw1 the game any given week for a large chunk of the games lifespan. Just want to put things in perspective, Gw1 was amazing, but there is a reason we made Gw2.

JonathanSharp

#31 - Sept. 2, 2013, 11:59 p.m.

We agree! We are working to make the game more rewarding, fun, and easy to get into. We’d love for the game to be an esport, but as you say, that’s not something you can force!

Strong + steady.

JonathanSharp

#40 - Sept. 3, 2013, 12:22 a.m.

Zanthrax.6538:
@JonPeters and ColinJohansen

A huge thank you for responding…I suspect you guys are aware but definitely don’t underestimate the value of communication even if it is a little update on the same things your working on say every month etc.

@Colin I hope you can understand from players perspective being stuck with this meta for such a long time without change and then to watch PAX and see that response. That being said, thank you for responding and I would like to apologise for the crap your twitch chat had to deal with.

A question to Jon and Colin etc Do you guys feel that allowing the meta to stay in such a state for so long was a mistake in hindsight? Also do you agree with the sentiment that the Pace of PvP could be toned down to benefit both play and viewing pleasure?

In GW1, we had a major tournament, and we had a balance patch come out right before the tournament. The teams in the tournament felt that this was difficult for them, as they already had to travel/etc., so it really messed up their builds. BUT, I also understand how you guys feel – we held balance updates until later so that we kept the meta stable (even if it has issues) for the tournament.

There are 2 sides to that, and I think both sides have merit.

As to the speed, yes, I agree. We want to make the game more fun to play and also easier to watch. This isn’t only for esports, it’s also for new players. Slowing the game down slightly would allow more players to watch good players, and more easily figure out how to play. So I agree w/ you there.

JonathanSharp

#47 - Sept. 3, 2013, 12:56 a.m.

Zanthrax.6538:
JonathanSharp.7094:
Zanthrax.6538:
@JonPeters and ColinJohansen

A huge thank you for responding…I suspect you guys are aware but definitely don’t underestimate the value of communication even if it is a little update on the same things your working on say every month etc.

@Colin I hope you can understand from players perspective being stuck with this meta for such a long time without change and then to watch PAX and see that response. That being said, thank you for responding and I would like to apologise for the crap your twitch chat had to deal with.

A question to Jon and Colin etc Do you guys feel that allowing the meta to stay in such a state for so long was a mistake in hindsight? Also do you agree with the sentiment that the Pace of PvP could be toned down to benefit both play and viewing pleasure?

In GW1, we had a major tournament, and we had a balance patch come out right before the tournament. The teams in the tournament felt that this was difficult for them, as they already had to travel/etc., so it really messed up their builds. BUT, I also understand how you guys feel – we held balance updates until later so that we kept the meta stable (even if it has issues) for the tournament.

There are 2 sides to that, and I think both sides have merit.

As to the speed, yes, I agree. We want to make the game more fun to play and also easier to watch. This isn’t only for esports, it’s also for new players. Slowing the game down slightly would allow more players to watch good players, and more easily figure out how to play. So I agree w/ you there.

First off sorry about calling you Jonpeters =P….just had his name on my mind constantly lol. Secondly thats refreshing to hear, I’m glad we see eye to eye on the pace of PvP. I understand that things take time and if you aren’t aware I personally have put so much money towards this game…and I have always understood that things will take time, I often likened it to LoL which took 1.5 – 2 years to really kick off and push into esports.

This PAX event was the first time I felt disheartened that all my money and effort is going to waste. But alas its my own short comings after being so positive for so long. For the record this is what I have done for the game purely out of my own pocket.

$500 to streamer " Shinryuku_ku "
$400 to streamer " Bitcloud "
$200 to streamer " TehMaker " ( only recently started streaming GW2 again )
$300 to EU Master of the Mists tournament.
$200 to Mist League
Purchased NA game for Sir_Koroshi
Approximately 1200-1500gold in giveaways, via Koroshi, Shinryuku_ku, GW2PvPTV etc.
~$800 in gem purchases.

I’m financially well off and have a great passion for your game. Lets make this this the PvP game I know it can be! It may be hard but I still reckon being open and communicative with your playerbase is still far better than going dark so to speak…even if its updating us on the same feature your still working on. =)

That’s very generous of you!

We’re trying our best to be as communicative as we can. I bet that you’ll see more activity this week, as people start getting back to the office after getting back to the office after the holiday!

And Jon and I are used to being mixed up, it’s ok.