Dungeons favouring ranged combat.

#1 - Feb. 13, 2013, 11:49 a.m.
Blizzard Post

This is something that i have been thinking about for a while. It seems like pretty much every boss encounter is easier if the whole team switch to ranged weapons. You might not deal as much dmg, but it is definitely much safer and therefore preferred in PUGS.
There are a few reasons for this.
Bosses are almost always permanently crippled or chilled, and will therefore strike the nearest target which is the melee player. If everyone had ranged, it would be much easier to avoid their auto-attacks (that is, if the boss is not ranged).
A lot of boss mechanics are also only a threat to players in close range.
Take Fractals Of The Mists as an example.

1. The Svanir boss will use a freezing breath that you can avoid by going into ranged.
2. The huge ice elemental requires you to constantly get the warmth at campfires, and they are all in ranged distance.
3. The lava shaman is using deadly AoE attacks that surround himself, and the arrow that gives agony will hit you almost immediately if you’re melee. (Making it difficult to dodge.) Keep in mind that i’m not saying melee is impossible, but that ranged is easier at least for unexperienced players.
4. Captain Ashym in the ascalonian fractal gives agony that can be avoided by being ranged, as the range is shorter than the player range. This is also the case in the “Hammer Fractal” (in a lack of a better description), where the agony can be avoided by being ranged (last encounter)
5. The poison and agony Bloomhunger uses in the swampland fractal are much easier to avoid in ranged as well. This is due to the fact that the mechanic is using projectiles, giving ranged more time to dodge. (Same as the Lava Shaman)
6. The Dredge Powersuit requires you to lure him into the lava, which is not possible in melee if you want to keep a consistent damage over time. I do however like this concept and mechanic, sometimes its nice to have a secondary mechanic to a boss encounter.

These a just a few examples from FoTM, but there are plenty of other examples in normal dungeons as well.
If i were to just mention one quickly, The Nightmare Tree path Up/Up is a good example. If you go ranged in that fight, you will be able to do the laundry meanwhile.

The way the aggro system works atm also seems to favour ranged. I think a lot of bosses tend to go for the guy with the most armor or toughness, which in a lot of cases is the melee character. IF the boss chooses to go for one of the ranged players, he is usually almost permanently crippled and is easily kited.

I’d say that at least 80% of PUGs are almost fully ranged. This is a problem because no one wants to the only melee guy, if you’re the only one going melee you will be rendered very vulnerable. And it can get pretty boring from time to time, just kiting the boss around.

I do however want to give a huge thank you for the latest fix regarding boss encounters. I’m talking about the invulnerability a boss gets if he can’t reach his targets. This has really helped.
This post is merely an attempt to raise awareness of this problem. I hope you will see this and consider it for the next boss encounters you design (or revamp). I’m also interested in hearing if anyone feels the same way.

Thanks.

#28 - Feb. 14, 2013, 1:31 p.m.
Blizzard Post

Aside from specific incidents, this perception is due mostly to the increased strength of monsters in dungeons, and that people who melee are grabbing more aggro and holding it. People using ranged weapons have an easier time mitigating damage through movement and positioning, making them safer by default than the person who runs in to punch monsters in the face.
That being said, of the light/medium armor sets I play (I won’t even bring guardian or warrior into the fight since we all know they don’t have too much trouble in melee) I actually have an easier time on my mesmer in Melee than my ranger… due purely to how well a melee mesmer can mitigate damage and control. I don’t do as much damage, but I can survive with warriors and guardians for the most part.

I wouldn’t call dungeons as favoring ranged combat, it just depends on how you play. Monsters are dangerous to anyone of any range. A good test is to have some friends clear out some mobs, and try to 1v1 with a particular creature with ranged and melee, and see how well you hold up and survive (hard to longbow DPS while managing a monster eating your face). I often find my melee mesmer (sword/torch) holds up better than my melee ranger (sword/dagger), but it’s certainly varying levels of utility play and mastery of personal technique.

#37 - Feb. 14, 2013, 2:29 p.m.
Blizzard Post

As soon as you walk into your first dungeons as an inexperienced lowbie you come to the realization that the majority of encounters DO currently favor ranged combat because many bosses have melee-ranged AOE abilities that make it extremely hazardous and then there are fights where you HAVE to used ranged weapons regardless.

Well, I think the thing I take issue with in your reply is what I have put in bold, and how it is something I felt I said in my post. Its about class mastery. It’s easy as ranged to let other people who are melee pull aggro while you stand off to the side and range them – nobody is ever going to argue that. But in the situation that it is a 1v1 and you are left with either melee or ranged, and you have to fend for yourself, I prefer melee weapons and am way better at handling 1v1 that way.

This thread claims that dungeons favor ranged players, which I disagree with. Group dynamics favor ranged players due to them having to be less active in their damage mitigation, allowing them to focus more on damage output. In the moment of a 1v1 though, I feel melee is superior to countering and fighting back. Of course each class/weapon has its strengths and weaknesses in that regard, but from my personal experience in a 1v1, I draw my swords and get to work… but again, it’s all very situation dependent.

#42 - Feb. 14, 2013, 4:44 p.m.
Blizzard Post

On my solo attempts I have noticed that in many cases being ranged would me much much easier than melee. For example you can indefinitely kite many enemies or just zig-zag and avoid their every/most attacks. And a lot more reaction time and melee-only attacks/effects.
More mobile enemies, less fixated aggro and less straying projectiles would quickly balance it.

I’ll admit that the master of solo makes a darn good point

It depends on how well you move, and, again, class mastery. If I can stand -smartly- in front of something utilizing my skills to mitigate damage, then I don’t have to run around and use zigzag/circle strafing to overcome things. Again though, its a class/technique thing, and even then also dependent on the mobs you face.

In the case it is a 1v1 moment, it could be that you are the last survivor of your group on a boss nearly dead, or got ambushed by something while separated from your group. Dungeons are group play, but there are standout solo moments in them.