Consumables Nerf

#1 - Jan. 21, 2014, 11:59 a.m.
Blizzard Post

Right when i logged after the new content i went to invent to summon some minions using the fire elemental powder and ogre pet whistle. Went around doing an event where i realised that my fire ele was dead. I double clicked and at the bottom i saw you cannot use this item right now…

There seems to be a 30min cooldown on it, another thing is the charzooka purchased at the shatterer is only 1 hit?! So if you purchase 50 you only get 50 hits?! Like cmon thats just crap. There are other items that have a 30min timer also.

Please change it back, it was fine how it was before. There was no need for a change.

One last thing these werent added into the patch notes… hmm secret nerf?…

#56 - Jan. 22, 2014, 4:33 a.m.
Blizzard Post

The fact that most of these items ever existed is just blatantly a bug. The decision to throw cooldowns on them were for server performance/stability as the patch notes said, not for balance. Period. This was something that was long overdue.

Think of it this way: Between the embers and whistle, those items were effectively doubling/tripling the amount of players active in a map.

As for the Charrzooka, I’m not sure what the reasoning behind that change was. That wasn’t part of the change to summons, or at least that I’m aware of.

The bringer of bad news,
-Bill

#166 - Jan. 22, 2014, 1:36 p.m.
Blizzard Post

I’d like to shed some additional light here since I actually made the change to the summoning items.

First of all, I’m sorry that you guys are disappointed with the change. Unfortunately, we knew this was going to happen and we tried to come up with a solution to mitigate the disappointment as much as possible.

Here’s some facts about the circumstances you may find interesting:

  • the change was made mostly to address the Fire Elemental Powder and the Ogre Pet Whistle since they cause the most problems. Other items were modified because they had the potential to become problems.
  • these items are not the same as pets that the player professions can summon, for these reasons:
    • the items had no cooldown, meaning that the summoned creatures are effectively invincible and can always be alive assuming the player has more items
    • there’s no limit on how many different items you can use at the same time. Meaning you can have both the elemental and the ogre pet simultaneously
    • unfortunately, the creatures were not specifically designed to the constraints we have on pets in general. They are way more costly than your average ranger pet. In fact, they are exactly the same as the versions you fight in the open world which is what makes them so powerful.
  • regardless of balance, the change was definitely made to address the various performance concerns that arise from allowing unlimited uses of the item by everyone in a map. Both the client and server are affected by having the extra creatures around.
  • the need for the change was identified months ago. Many members of the team were adamantly against making the change because they knew it would destroy a popular strategy.

Given all of that information, and the introduction of two brand-new world events, something had to be done. Ultimately we decided with the cooldown approach because:

  • we did not want to debuff/rebalance the potency of the creature resulting from a single use
  • we did not want to completely eliminate the use of the item in large events
  • it was not possible to clearly and cleanly message why the item would not be usable in large events or when there are too many nearby

The end result was a hefty cooldown, which honestly could have ended up being a lot longer.

Although we do our best to anticipate issues with various rewards designs, occasionally something goes unnoticed until it becomes a large problem. As customers, you probably witness less than 1% of these rejected designs. Of that small percentage that slip by, an even smaller percentage end up needing to be changed. Nothing ever gets removed because it’s fun. It just happens that fun things can sometimes get in the way other people having fun—like an item that cripples an entire server and causes everyone to have skill activation lag.

Tons of ideas get filtered out by discussion, data validation, quality assurance, and performance reporting on development branches. Most of them are good, fun ideas that we just can’t reasonably support. We’ll have to share some stories in a happier thread someday. For now I’ll be happy to answer any additional questions you might have on this topic.

#179 - Jan. 22, 2014, 2:31 p.m.
Blizzard Post

On cooldown length:

  • The 30 minute length is based on the effective duration of the items (5 minutes). Compared with the Glyph of Lesser Elementals (Elemenatlist utility skill, 1 minute duration), 5 minutes is quite long.
  • It’s possible that we could go to something more like 1 minute duration, 5 minute cooldown, but that’s getting back into re-balancing the item. With a re-balance we stand to raise equal or more controversy. Currently you can at least continue using the item to whatever end it was used before, albeit in a more limited fashion. Had we changed it completely, you may have been able to use the item more frequently but no longer in the same capacity as before.

On dungeons/instance:

  • Yes there is a cumulative cost of having tons of these in instances. Without getting into too many technical details, 150 people in 30 dungeons using this item is just as bad as 150 people in 1 public map. Even if you have not experienced skill lag personally, there are constraints and instances do hit them.
  • It is therefore completely unfair to assign blame to players who enjoy the large open world events. The events represent drastic instances of the problem, but the change was made to address the entirety of the issues that are being caused across the game.

On consumable design, in general:

  • It’s not really my place to comment too widely on this aspect of the game. I do know for certain it would not be consistent with some of GW2’s fundamental design pillars to create an environment where everyone is expected to have on-hand some elaborate set of consumables needing to be laboriously maintained and activated. This is why, for example, you are allowed only one food buff at a time.