#1 - Oct. 28, 2013, 12:38 p.m.

Hi All,

We are now moving to the discussion phase of this initiative. The topic with the most votes in this area of the game was Living World (Note: The topic tally was aggregated across all Community Forums per supported languages). The Coordinators for this thread will be myself and Colin if he has anytime (-:.

As discussed here: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/

First I would to lay down some rules for as we move forward regarding how we collaborate with one another:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.

2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.

3: Anger and emotion will have less impact than intelligent discussion.

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

We will be closing the thread on Monday November 4th, and shortly after we will have an open discussion about what worked and what did not in regard to the process of the first topic discussion.

Until then thank for taking the time to take part in this and I look forward to discussing the game with you.

ChrisW

P.S: it is likely that we will watch the discussion for a few days before posting.

#4 - Oct. 28, 2013, 12:49 p.m.

Randulf.7614:

Slightly confused. Can this be a Q&A about the Living World concept for the devs? If it’s just a discussion for the community, we already have wide ranging discussions going on in the LW subforum.

ALso, what do you mean by open discussion after the 4th? Is that discussion on the discussion we had here?

Sorry if my reply sounds weird, I’m all for the initiative, but I’m confused what direction this thread is meant to go in based on what you posted above.

(also..first!)

Hi Randulf,

The conversation on the 4th will be about how the first phase of the process went in terms of how useful it was etc so we can make the second phase better as a group.

The point of the initiative is definitely to discuss points as group, allowing us all to have a conversation about Living World in this case and share design philosophy that will certainly answer questions on both sides.

i hope this explanation helps.

Chris

#80 - Oct. 28, 2013, 3:34 p.m.

Awesome start!

I am reading the thread and will likely join the discussion tomorrow.

Chris

#112 - Oct. 28, 2013, 4:55 p.m.

morrolan.9608:

Tom Wolf.1340:

If you people dont take all this to heart then I dont know what it will take.
I’ve seen excelent points made so far and sugestions on how to correct them in order to set this thing straight.
Lets hope it wont just stop at “Good feedback! we’ll consider it.” and then continue on as if nothing happened.

+1 to this, this has occurred to me as well. Chris we want to see substantive contributions by the dev team to these threads and obviously consideration being given to the suggestions or reasons why they can’t be implemented.

Hi Morrolan,

I appreciate your enthusiasm. Please do understand that we won’t be commenting on specific implementation. I just want to set expectations appropriately from the outset. There are multiple places on the forums where you can read how this initiative is going to work.

Also regarding dev contributions we have been and will continue to read the forums and as i said in my post, some of us will wait to hear the considerations of many of the community before entering the discussion. I can’t speak for all of us however.

From my previous post:

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

I hope this rule informs more clearly as to your expectation. Let’s not derail the thread by questioning the goals of the process please as they are already firmly stated.

I am enjoying the contribution of the discussion thus far and would like to see it evolve unhindered.

Chris

#390 - Oct. 29, 2013, 11:38 a.m.

So a fun question to ask to help direct the conversation a bit: What aspects of your favorite television shows would you think would be cool to see reflected in a game medium?

To a large degree, the things we want to accomplish with living world overlap in a lot of ways with what a television series does. Or another example of our goals: if you bought your favorite RPG and the story was constantly expanded or continued, for free on a regular basis.

I’m not saying we’re doing all of these things above, those are simply the goals we have to help make Gw2 unique and something innovative in the genre through a dynamic living world we envisioned 7 odd years ago.

I personally think we have a lot of work to do to get to the point we’re succeeding on these goals, but with every step along the way we’re learning an incredible amount. Some fantastic ideas and comments in this thread, and many of them match our own feelings on living world and what would make it successful as well. Many of these ideas are things you’ve all been suggesting for months (or longer) and will be reflected in future releases. Remember what you see today we started work on 4-5 months ago (or longer), so the lag time to adjust to feedback and what we learned isn’t going to be instant, it’ll come in waves of evolutions with each round of feedback and discussion.

#480 - Oct. 29, 2013, 6:03 p.m.

I’d like to say thanks to everyone who posted constructive and/or detailed feedback regarding the Living World story and characters in this thread. While I can’t post spoilers about future content, I would like to address some of the opinions that have been brought up. Bear in mind I may have touched upon these topics in other threads that were tied to previous releases (or mentioned within interviews on external Web sites) but I’ll put my most recent thoughts here for discussion.

Story Pacing & Continuity
There are some folks who feel that the Living World story is moving too slowly and/or that the themes and plots feel disjointed between releases. I somewhat agree with this sentiment.

We took a long time to build up the various alliances before we revealed Scarlet’s involvement. Some of this was due to factors external to the team, but some was by design. We first wanted to show changes in the open world with “teaser” content like in the Flame & Frost releases and then add the bigger content later once the teams and development pipelines were up to speed.

One of the challenges of the semi-monthly release cycle is that we’re limited in how much content we can put inside each one. This can be a good thing if the story is very focused and doesn’t have a lot of moving parts. The problem we ran into is that we needed to develop a larger cast of non-player characters to account for every playable race, and then create the content in which to put them. That sort of build up takes time and incurs an amount of long-term development debt.

The end goal was to have multiple arcs going simultaneously like on more modern television shows, but where a weekly drama might have 20 – 40 minutes of character time to get things moving, we have maybe half that (or less). So after a few releases it started to feel like there were a lot of unresolved plot threads out there and you (the player) had no way of knowing which ones would be resumed.

Perhaps a better approach would have been to start and resolve each arc before introducing another.

The upside to all of this is that we are aware of the items that we introduced but haven’t finished yet. We’re planning on resolving as much as we can by the time the Scarlet arc concludes. (Yes, there will be a conclusion.)

Scarlet
If memory serves me, we foreshadowed Scarlet’s existence through a comment Mai Trin made during one of the summer releases. This got some folks speculating on who she was, her part in all the attacks, etc. Scarlet debuted in August during the Queen’s Jubilee and has continued to make appearances here and there that slowly reveal her role in the overall plot.

The operative word here is “slowly” and judging from all the responses, many feel that the plot is moving ahead at a glacial pace. That Scarlet is nothing more than a cardboard cutout villain.

I will readily acknowledge that her presentation has elicited some strong reactions in the community. Some people love her. Others hate her. While that kind of polarizing view can sometimes be an asset, it brings some polarizing baggage to the conversation every time her name is brought up. Here’s where I think we could have done a better job with her.

• Tone: Scarlet is crazy, but she sometimes comes off as over-the-top and madcap. While that works in a lot of scenarios, it’s not something that’s been extensively explored inside of Guild Wars 2 before. There is a reason to her madness but we haven’t revealed it yet. Perhaps it would have suited her character better to have shown that somewhere alongside her introduction. Scope had something to do with it in her debut, but honestly we knew she would be featured in multiple future releases so…

• Pacing: …we made the conscious decision to pace out her character development over multiple game builds. In other words, we haven’t gotten to that part of her story yet, but since nobody outside the building has an idea of what’s to come I can understand the reactions that she’s “one-dimensional” or conveniently powerful. We’re aware of the perception and feel that future releases will have content that develops her character.

Dragons
Guild Wars 2 has a dragon on the box cover. The primary motivation for players on their 80-level journey is to kill a dragon. So yeah, giant, winged beasts are a part of Tyria, they’re core to the game, and we haven’t forgotten about them. That stated, I can’t say when we’ll return to them—only that we will. There is a plan in place.

#481 - Oct. 29, 2013, 6:03 p.m.

Player Agency
For many players, their feelings of “playing second fiddle” likely began with Trahearne’s introduction in the Personal Story and have persisted somewhat with the Living World releases. This is partially by design and partially due to constraints both budgetary and technical. The quote below is from a forum response I posted after launch.

“Q:What do you guys think about the incredible negative feedback you got for Trahearne?
A:Narrative Designer Scott McGough and I talked about this very topic some time ago. In short, Trahearne was intended to fill a very specific role that, in terms of both gameplay and story, the PC could not fill—an order-neutral character with extensive knowledge about Orr and the magic of undeath who could coordinate a global war effort and make the necessary plans, thus leaving the actual gameplay up to the player. Further, Trahearne’s character design was intentional in that he would be a reluctant hero who, through interacting with the player, evolved into someone who could step up to lead the Pact.

This didn’t resonate well with some players for a variety of reasons. We’re comparing external feedback with our own, since we have plans for Trahearne and other existing characters in future live updates and expansion content. We won’t spoil what we’re discussing, other than to say we’re looking at many different options for his current implementation and beyond.”

In regards to the Living World constraints, there are a few factors at play that prevent the player from speaking:

• With our current tech, the PC cannot speak outside of a cinematic conversation (which were featured inside the Personal Story at ship) or contextual chatter (crippled = “My leg!”). We intend to explore possible solutions in the somewhat near future.

• Our revised cinematic technology does not currently support player voice variants (i.e. 10 different PC voices).

• The text of every player line has to be translated 10 times per language to account for each player race/gender combination.

• The VO of every player line has to then be recorded 10 times per voiced language. (In other words, it’s freakishly expensive to voice the PC as 1 PC line in English = 10 English voiced lines + 10 German voiced lines, etc.).
  That stated, the player doesn’t need VO in order to have agency in the story but we are limited in what we can track since it gets added to the player’s record, which is already large.

We have a few things planned for upcoming releases that should make the player feel like more of a driver and less of a passenger, but please remember that it takes upwards of four months for content to go from concept to completion. Nothing I say here will happen immediately due to the nature of how we build things.

Thanks much.

#485 - Oct. 29, 2013, 6:28 p.m.

Randulf.7614:

It’s possible it worth reading out the storyline as it unfolds to someone in private, much like authors do with a family member/friends.

We do table reads for our voiced content, and review plot points with each feature team at the outset. Things often change or are adjusted as development goes on, so some of what you’ve seen so far deviates from our original plan due to a variety of circumstances.

It seems what you are saying is that looking from your perspective the story meshes ( a good sign for things to come), but it isn’t unfolding that way fro us. Bouncing a chapter story off someone not involved directly with the project like a family member/trustowrthy friend for eg would help give the perspective we have without giving away spoilers for us.

Kind of like a usability test. Not a bad idea.

Glad to hear dragons are somewhere on the agenda!

Me, too!

#486 - Oct. 29, 2013, 6:28 p.m.

Faowri.4159:

Psycho Robot.7835:

BobbyStein.2315:

Story Pacing & Continuity
There are some folks who feel that the Living World story is moving too slowly

Wait, what? Too slow? Is that what you got from the past 10 pages? All I see is person after person saying that the pace is too fast. Its nearly unanimous so far that the development feels rushed, and its not flushed out or properly refined. Plus, even the people who do feel that its too slow likely only feel like that because there is actually very little story in each patch. If you slowed down you could actually give enough story in a patch to last for a month, rather than deal with time constraints so overbearing that you can’t even fill two weeks worth.

I think what Bobby meant was the pace of the story is too slow. Separate issue to the pace of releases.

Correct. I’m talking about story pacing, not release pacing. Big difference!

#574 - Oct. 30, 2013, 9:23 a.m.

timmyf.1490:

Yetiyen.7269:

You’ve completely ignored the biggest problem with the living story, most players WANT PERMANENT CONENT! You’ve got 10 pages of people telling you that they want new zones and more permanent content. Yet you haven’t responded or provided an answer to these players at all. I’m not trying to be rude, but I thought the idea of this thread was for you to listen to the community and provide us with feedback. You still need to address:

1. Permanent content! We want new areas!
(New zones and areas etc.)

2. The pace of the Living Story!
(2 weeks is too fast!)

It would be really appreciated if you could address these issues.

1. Demanding things from the developers will get you nowhere.
2. Bobby Stein – correct me if I’m wrong, guys – is a writer. He can’t address those issues because that’s not what his job is.

Your first point is true. When feedback is phrased like a demand it usually gets ignored. Constructive, thoughtful commentary is what we need. Thankfully, there’s a lot of it in this thread so I and the other devs appreciate that so many of you are taking time to formulate your thoughts.

Regarding your second point, yes, I’m the lead writer. I manage a team of narrative designers and writers who are currently tasked with writing plot, advancing character development, and drafting dialog for the Living World releases. I do not set the release schedule or contribute meaningfully toward critical design systems like rewards, skills, combat, etc.

That stated, comments about the release pacing (a.k.a. how frequently we put out Living World updates) and related features (task tracking, replayable content, etc.) are extremely useful to others at the studio.

#585 - Oct. 30, 2013, 9:56 a.m.

rizzo.1079:

BobbyStein.2315:

timmyf.1490:

Yetiyen.7269:

You’ve completely ignored the biggest problem with the living story, most players WANT PERMANENT CONENT! You’ve got 10 pages of people telling you that they want new zones and more permanent content. Yet you haven’t responded or provided an answer to these players at all. I’m not trying to be rude, but I thought the idea of this thread was for you to listen to the community and provide us with feedback. You still need to address:

1. Permanent content! We want new areas!
(New zones and areas etc.)

2. The pace of the Living Story!
(2 weeks is too fast!)

It would be really appreciated if you could address these issues.

1. Demanding things from the developers will get you nowhere.
2. Bobby Stein – correct me if I’m wrong, guys – is a writer. He can’t address those issues because that’s not what his job is.

Your first point is true. When feedback is phrased like a demand it usually gets ignored. Constructive, thoughtful commentary is what we need. Thankfully, there’s a lot of it in this thread so I and the other devs appreciate that so many of you are taking time to formulate your thoughts.

Regarding your second point, yes, I’m the lead writer. I manage a team of narrative designers and writers who are currently tasked with writing plot, advancing character development, and drafting dialog for the Living World releases. I do not set the release schedule or contribute meaningfully toward critical design systems like rewards, skills, combat, etc.

That stated, comments about the release pacing (a.k.a. how frequently we put out Living World updates) and related features (task tracking, replayable content, etc.) are extremely useful to others at the studio.

Thanks for your feedback, but it doesn’t sound like you’re the person who should be addressing many/most of the points this thread brings up.

Many of the comments deal with plot pacing, character development, and tone so that’s what I’m responding to. Feedback regarding the release schedule, high level design, etc. are being looked at by others.

#611 - Oct. 30, 2013, 11:04 a.m.

Yetiyen.7269:

I didn’t mean for it to sound like a demand, and for this, I apologize. I respect how hard you guys work on the Living Story, however it’s frustrating to see so much feedback regarding LS release pacing and world features unanswered. Especially as these are questions and comments that have been ignored in the past.

No offense taken. Thanks for clarifying.

#636 - Oct. 30, 2013, 1:20 p.m.

It is great to see the discussion evolve. When i get some time i will be posting about the Living World cadence and entering that part of discussion with you all.

With time in mind i don’t think a week is long enough to discuss this topic so we will keep the close date open. At the end of the day i want to make sure we have enough time to discuss the topic with you and not feel rushed.

Chris

#662 - Oct. 30, 2013, 6:51 p.m.

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

It is great to see the discussion evolve. When i get some time i will be posting about the Living World cadence and entering that part of discussion with you all.

With time in mind i don’t think a week is long enough to discuss this topic so we will keep the close date open. At the end of the day i want to make sure we have enough time to discuss the topic with you and not feel rushed.

Chris

i don’t think this discussion thread is what I thought it would be . Where has the collaboration been I see only players bringing up points and the one anet employee who responded has simply explained his view on the situation. there hasn’t been any actual collaborative development. To help this discusion move further could you say what you mean by collaboration and if you think this thread has lived up to what you intended so far?

Hi Gidorah,

The main focus of this initiative is to discuss design philosophies with the community as outlined here in the rules i set out for the topic discussion:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.
2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.
4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

I also want to reiterate this rule:

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

Currently we are keeping up to date with the three threads and posting when we are able to. Bobby has posted in regard to story, Colin has posted in regard to vision and i will be posting about the Cadence of the releases. I am hoping we will be able to discuss many issues with the initiative and we are learning as we go along. One factor is clearly us having the time to post currently, and personally i am building out time to be able to enter the discussion appropriately. This is why i have extended the windows on the threads to ensure we give the discussions the respect they are due.

The intention of this plan is have mind share, to educate one another on our feelings and philosophies and ultimately together through these discussions impact the evolution of Guild Wars 2. We all want the best for the game and this is at the core of the plan.

I feel it is going pretty well currently. I think that the majority of the posts from the community show a clear understanding on the goals of the exercise and there has already been some great discussion and insights. I am looking forward to being able to enter the discussion soon and would say that i wish we had a little more time presently. With this in mind I certainly have some suggestions to tweaking the initiative moving forward which we can discuss after this phase.

I hope this answers your questions.

Chris

#666 - Oct. 30, 2013, 7:13 p.m.

Talissa Chan.7208:

Before people start hijacking the post and making it a big argument amongst either players or players vs devs. There’s 14 pages of people who got the concept and are placing their feelings and views. This isn’t a twitter q & a, its a community response.

on that note – I posted earlier but another player bought up a good point, When i do login my first impression of every new content isn’t wow how cool – its “what achievements do i grind out now, what ones do i do later” is there a way to make achieves linked to things like the mini dungeon in hallo? first run through – 25 achieve, get elemental – 25 achieve, second dungeon done – 25 achieve. Rather than grind out 50 doors, eat 500 candy, smash 250 pinatas, kill 25 extremely slow spawning toxic champs. So more story following related achieves rather than just exercises in “do x y times” I’d rather enjoy the content and naturally fall over achieves than be forced into blitzing them all in a day.
Thanks again for your time ^^

I agree Talissa. The topic discussion is going very well and we will have time to discuss enhancing the process for the initiative at the end of every topic phase and in so doing we will get better and better as we move forward.

Chris

#674 - Oct. 30, 2013, 7:53 p.m.

Hi All,

I have freed up some time at lunch tomorrow and will be posting then (This is a very busy week). Keep up the great points and discussions, sorry for the delay in joining in.

For some of the posts above please don’t derail what so far has been a good start.

Chris

#777 - Oct. 31, 2013, 4:53 p.m.

Part 1

Hi All,

First of thanks for attacking the initiative in the spirit it was laid out. The contribution thus far has been passionate, insightful and very valuable. Much of your commentary and discussions have already been raised in meetings and impacted our thought process around development moving forward already.

As laid out by the rules I will not go into specifics about future development, this said however it is very encouraging to see that much of what has been discussed matches our plans. This fact for many will not come as a revelation as it is clear to see the impact our community has already had on the game since we launched.

So I wanted to share my thoughts with you around the key discussion points (note: Story is something that I will touch upon and that Bobby will continue to discuss in greater detail)

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset. However the points raised around achievements being too time consuming is something that I do acknowledge and something we have already taken steps to address both in terms of overall time to complete and the nature of the repetitive achievements. We will continue to make strides in this area and are aware that the current time requirement also cuts in to the player’s ability to achieve goals in other aspects of the game.

#778 - Oct. 31, 2013, 4:53 p.m.

Part 2

Regarding rewards relating to the Living World content I agree that we should make greater effort to ensure that time investment is matched by the reward. We have to be careful in this regard due to constraints surrounding our economy but we have already discussed many ways of meeting this goal and maintaining the integrity of the economy. Regarding Living World Meta Achievement rewards, personally I would like to see more rewards that commemorate the accomplishments of my character and my friends, specifically pertaining to the challenges I overcame (Essentially a rite of passage I can show of). Different types of reward take different amounts of time to make and we have been working to organize our reward distribution better so player’s will see more variety moving forward. I also really like the idea of Arc based Meta Achievements.

Many of the community raised the story arc becoming fragmented due to non-related content being released in between events. Again this is something we are aware of and are in agreement with the community on. On top of this we would like to see more incremental attachment to the players in terms of story and how it relates to them through gameplay. This point was raised early on in the thread and is core to making the Living World initiative a success. Personally I feel we have improved Story and Gameplay synergy but certainly we are not where we want to be yet. As we build on the Living World platform in terms of refinement of systems and potentially new technologies it is not hard to see just how much potential the platform has and what can be done with it.

I also agree with the notion of less temporary content where it makes sense to do so. I think that an evolving world by its very nature requires ‘A time in space’ of contextual exposition but this shouldn’t be the bulk of the content. The notion of the Living World and Story Arcs centering around meaningful evolution to the geography of Tyria, the player’s role within the events and their tangible impact on the future of Tyria as an evolving world are key to our direction moving forward. The platform we have built is still in its infancy but I would hope the evolution toward this goal is becoming more and more apparent. We have been working toward more permanent content and will continue to do so.

#779 - Oct. 31, 2013, 4:54 p.m.

Part 3

Many of you raised the idea of tying the Living World more deeply into the world of Tyria and also as a deployment tool for enhancing the core of the game. Over the past year we have made many improvements to the core of the game, as part of the releases but not folded into them per se. This is a really interesting idea what we should continue to discuss in this thread and that will be a topic of discussion in the studio. Regarding drilling more into the existing content with Living World is something we have done, are doing now and will continue to evolve moving forward. Related to this many of you talked about making the changes more meaningful to the player’s life within Tyria, all I can say to this is Heck Yeah! This is at the core of what we intend to deliver with the Living World and whilst we have done some work in this area, we are not at a stage yet where we would say that this paradigm is fully functional yet. To create meaningful changes they must impact the day to day of the player and this is at the center of our design philosophy for execution in this area.

As mentioned earlier, we are still building the Living World platform and this is why the Collaborative Development plan exists because discussion of this type is key to course correction and evolution in how the platform is built.

A number of you mentioned consequences for failure. This is something we discuss a lot and is quite complex. I would ask that we continue to discuss this topic in the thread.

With this in mind I also want us to be delivering epic adventures, where we forge the future of Tyria and fight mighty foes. And whilst Bobby has and will continue to discuss the intricacies of this, I want you all to understand that this is very much part of the plan.

Another big topic that was raised was Quality of releases. The work we are doing is new to all of us and therefore we are constantly finding opportunities to improve and course correct in a live environment. This relates not only to bugs, but the understanding of the types of content our community enjoys and how much time you all have to play the content. I believe the quality of our releases are improving and will continue to do so as we hone in our own internal development practices and have a better understanding of how the Living World is performing in the live environment.

Regarding accessibility of releases some great points were brought up ranging from ideas such as a scrying pool or Hall of Memories to get caught up on previous releases. We are very aware of the problems presented by having an ongoing arc and this particular area is an ongoing topic of discussion. Regarding achievements as a method of directing player’s to content, we also agree that there are better ways to do this and you will see with the latest release some innovations in this area.

The Zerg! This is an interesting problem that we had actually fixed to an extent in an earlier release where we created a meta goal that forced players to split up into groups. I really enjoyed this and the feedback was excellent. Personally I quite enjoy the zerg sometimes in PVE ( I tend to be less of a ‘zerger’ in WvW) but I also really enjoy group play in the open world as many of you have mentioned. I would love to see more of this in the open world.

Some of you posted about your favorite releases and least favorite. It would be really cool if you have the time to post your single favorite and least favorite and the reasons why for each. This would help a lot and I will share my learning with you etc. from the posts.

I am running out of time sadly but I did want to make sure that I entered the discussion. I hope the comments have made shed some new light on our approach and thoughts and I am looking forward to enter into proper discussion now. I probably haven’t covered all the areas but no doubt you will raise any I missed (-:

I wanted to say thanks again for being part of this initiative. Personally I think its going to be awesome, it is already impacting our day to day discussion so let’s keep it up!

Chris

P.S: Please forgive me for bad grammar or typos.

#781 - Oct. 31, 2013, 5:13 p.m.

minbariguy.7504:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset.

Well, I guess that pretty much tells me everything I need to know about the future development of the game. Honestly, I still feel that whoever is in charge of this decision simply does not want to admit that it was a mistake, no matter how many times people say it. But if that is what you’re planning on sticking to… so be it.

I wish you the best of luck. It’s clear that this game is not for me. I just can’t support a game that insists on prioritizing quantity over quality. But at least now I know.

Ah well. Plenty of other games out there.

Hi,

Sorry to hear this Minbariguy. I do want to point out however that as laid out in my post/s. That we intend to continue to improve quality over every release, that internal best working development efficiency will also build toward that and that we have been reducing the amount of time required to complete releases over a period of time already.

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Chris

#786 - Oct. 31, 2013, 5:28 p.m.

Psycho Robot.7835:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset.

I’m disappointed to hear this. I don’t see why the development team feels the need to release content so fast. If the content starts being fun, adequately rewarding, polished, and bug free, then there’s obviously no problem with rapid releases, however I doubt that this can be done, and honestly, even if it can be done, I would just wonder how much better it could be if the release schedule were slower.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The Zerg! This is an interesting problem that we had actually fixed to an extent in an earlier release where we created a meta goal that forced players to split up into groups. I really enjoyed this and the feedback was excellent. Personally I quite enjoy the zerg sometimes in PVE ( I tend to be less of a ‘zerger’ in WvW) but I also really enjoy group play in the open world as many of you have mentioned. I would love to see more of this in the open world.

The only thing I could think that you mean by this is Tequatl, since as far back as I can remember, its been zergs. The last releases have been zerging bosses in the crown pavilion, zerging aethers in clockwork chaos, zerging candy corn in blood and madness, and zerging krait in tower of nightmares. Tequatl is really he only LS related content that forced players to split up for even a moment, and even then, you were still required to have 95% of players present all balled up by his right foot. Indeed, having lots of people by the turrets was actually a bad thing, since it scaled up the events and caused champions to spawn. If you’re referring to the battery phases, that was just taking 1 giant zerg and turning it into 4 smaller zergs. Truthfully if you want to address the zerg all you need to do is give enemies attacks that grow more powerful the more people they hit, and to remove the limit on how many players can be hit.

Hi Psycho Robot,

I was referring to the Clockwork Chaos invasions where the meta designs split groups up in order to complete the objective efficiently. Sorry for any confusion.

My point was that whilst it is clear that we are working toward this in the above method and in balancing of individual creatures, i really liked the idea put forward in the thread of even more focus on individual group play in the open world in releases.

Chris

#800 - Oct. 31, 2013, 6:03 p.m.

gidorah.4960:

also chris any comment on the poor reception of scarlet and when you plan to get rid of her. It seems obvious from this thread that for every 1 person who thinks she is great there is 10 who just get annoyed by her and view her as poorly written deus ex machina. While showing her motivations may lower the ratio she is not a well received villain and it is likely too late to fix that.

Hi Gidorah,

I expect Bobby will speak to this point in more detail.

Chris

#801 - Oct. 31, 2013, 6:09 p.m.

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Chris

the hard adherance to the two week release schedule seems to indicate the opposite. there has clearly been releases that just seem unfinished. Cannach’s lair comes to mind of something that left the majority of players thinking the content was rushed out to meet a 2 week schedule. There have been others but that was the one that comes to mind first. I think its ok to just have a balance patch and delay content that clearly isnt ready so that our enjoyment of great content is merely delayed not ruined by clearly rushed release schedule.

Hi Gidorah,

To be clear we are absolutely focused on quality. We feel that we can have both this cadence and high quality and are continuing to work toward this. If we feel that we cannot reach this balance then of course like everything, we will evolve as necessary. This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.. My point is the current plan is to continue with this cadence.

Chris

#806 - Oct. 31, 2013, 6:12 p.m.

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

also chris any comment on the poor reception of scarlet and when you plan to get rid of her. It seems obvious from this thread that for every 1 person who thinks she is great there is 10 who just get annoyed by her and view her as poorly written deus ex machina. While showing her motivations may lower the ratio she is not a well received villain and it is likely too late to fix that.

Hi Gidorah,

I expect Bobby will speak to this point in more detail.

Chris

bobby already spoke on it and I would love if he went into more detail but surely you have some opinion on it as well?

Fair point Gidorah (-:

I am looking forward to the rest of the arc. There are definitely learnings that i have outlined in my previous post both internally and from the community, but overall i am very excited about what is to come.

Chris

#817 - Oct. 31, 2013, 6:45 p.m.

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Chris

the hard adherance to the two week release schedule seems to indicate the opposite. there has clearly been releases that just seem unfinished. Cannach’s lair comes to mind of something that left the majority of players thinking the content was rushed out to meet a 2 week schedule. There have been others but that was the one that comes to mind first. I think its ok to just have a balance patch and delay content that clearly isnt ready so that our enjoyment of great content is merely delayed not ruined by clearly rushed release schedule.

Hi Gidorah,

To be clear we are absolutely focused on quality. We feel that we can have both this cadence and high quality and are continuing to work toward this. If we feel that we cannot reach this balance then of course like everything, we will evolve as necessary. This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.. My point is the current plan is to continue with this cadence.

Chris

Hi Chris,
I have to side with Gidorah on this. You are taking a firm stance on a 2 week cadence when 9/10 posts in this collaborative thread are asking you to slow down the pace of releases. Maybe you are un willing to change the cadence because you have pieces of infrastructure in place, both hardware and manpower, that are designed around a 2 week release schedule and you simply don’t want to undue all of that because it was difficult to put into motion to begin with. Understandable if thats the case, however, the release pace is probably the biggest thing people are harping about in this thread and one of the bigger items on people’s minds concerning Living Story. Thats not a matter of my opinion, I can almost say that as a fact just by reading this thread.

The cadence, for me, is probably the largest issue for me along side of quality of content, which I will touch on. I currently am not playing GW2 because of this and a few other reasons, but am passionate enough to be quite vocal in this thread. Id love to come back, but hearing that Arenanet is taking a hard stance on their release schedule makes me think twice.

At the first least, you should have an internal discussion about it. It would be negligent to simply sweep this one under the rug when it is a top 3 item in this thread(and possibly #1).

Hi Cesmode,

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

Chris

#854 - Oct. 31, 2013, 10:13 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

also chris any comment on the poor reception of scarlet and when you plan to get rid of her. It seems obvious from this thread that for every 1 person who thinks she is great there is 10 who just get annoyed by her and view her as poorly written deus ex machina. While showing her motivations may lower the ratio she is not a well received villain and it is likely too late to fix that.

Hi Gidorah,

I expect Bobby will speak to this point in more detail.

Chris

bobby already spoke on it and I would love if he went into more detail but surely you have some opinion on it as well?

Fair point Gidorah (-:

I am looking forward to the rest of the arc. There are definitely learnings that i have outlined in my previous post both internally and from the community, but overall i am very excited about what is to come.

Chris

I’ve been in discussions with dozens of folks from many different departments regarding the conclusion of the Scarlet arc. I can’t go into specifics about where, when, and how things will end without spoiling things, unfortunately. But I can say that we’ve been reading as much feedback as we’ve been able (yes, that includes the bad along with the good). We know how strongly some of you feel about her as a character. The most I can say now is that the plan is in motion. You’ll just have to wait and see.

Regarding GW1 lore in Living World and beyond, let’s just say we’re looking at all GW lore right now and picking out threads that we’d like to tie up. Ideas are welcome, as always.

I’ll post more tomorrow. Time to go home.

#919 - Nov. 1, 2013, 11:13 a.m.

nopoet.2960:

I think it is important to write failure into the living story itself. It’s kind of there now but in a half kitten way. We didn’t get Scarlet but we didn’t really lose anything either. Let’s say she was successful in her assassination attempt of the queen. Immediately you have a power vacuum needing to be filed. We already have powerful human actors on the edges that would love to either cease control or toss it off. Second, the player would want revenge. Third how would the char react… some would definitely see it as an opportunity. Fourth, with the human nation distracted centaurs and bandits will have greater freedom to take land so they have to be fought back… and so on and so forth.

That’s among the many things we discussed doing, but we currently have technical limitations preventing us from making such a drastic change because it would break Personal Story dependencies. Until we have a system in place that separates the timelines of the Personal Story and Living World stories we are limited in the kinds of changes we can show in the open world.

nopoet.2960:

As a complete aside, I would love to see some experiments in dynamic events where failure doesn’t stall the event but progresses it in a different direction.

Interesting idea. Can you provide an example of how you would imagine it working?

nopoet.2960:

Finally, I just want you guys to know that I think you all are rockstars and there is no way I would want my work to be open to so much “constructive criticism” 24 hours a day every day.

Thank you for the kind words.

#925 - Nov. 1, 2013, 11:37 a.m.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Why are you sticking to the bi-weekly release schedule? If you know it hinders you, why keep at it? That makes no sense to me. I know you’re not the guy to set it, but I’m sure you know why it’s set there and who sets it and can explain to us this befuddlement – if not get the players’ opinion on it to the person or people who set the schedule.

That’s not my decision to make. That stated, feedback regarding the cadence is useful and constructive to others so I think it’s good for people to tell us how they feel about the release schedule.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The concept you had was good. The issue is that you didn’t go through with that concept. You had one arc, then you paused it and had another, then you paused that one and had another. That is not doing multiple arcs simultaneously.

That’s one of the challenges of threading a story through a huge game where each update takes you to a completely different place, often touching content that was never designed to carry the load of a linear story.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

On a side note, I keep seeing you (ArenaNet) compare the living story to television shows or books. The issue I am finding is that’s how you’re treating Guild Wars – like a novel or like a television show. But it isn’t. It’s a video game. And you write and make video games much differently. With TV and novels, you cannot show multiple scenes at once and instead have to show them back to back even if they occur at the same time. In video games, especially open world ones, this is not so – you can have multiple things happening simultaneously within a set timeframe, even if the players don’t always see this. E.g., when Flame and Frost: Retribution was going on, you had Super Adventure Box. That’s how you do multiple arcs simultaneously – having the content available to players at the same time. Not doing part of an arc, then part of another, then part of a third.

This is a valid point. It is challenging to adapt storytelling mechanics of one medium to another, especially when you don’t have the same tools available.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t care about “what could have been” – what I want to know is what will you do to fix the issue? And spoilers aren’t needed to be told for this. I’m talking about your plans for future exposition. …At the rate I’m seeing, and I’ve been delving into it as much as I possibly could, that’s where I’m predicting things will finally start making sense.

One huge challenge facing the Living World narrative, in my opinion, is guidance. Personal Story has the journal. Dynamic Events have the event UI. Until now, the Living World had: mails, achievements, and scattered icons. That’s all. There was nothing to guide you to the content directly. We never taught the player how to navigate the releases using these systems, which were never designed to be used in this way.

The first improvement to address this went live on 10/29. The special event UI now tells you where to go and in what order to experience the story bits. We have designs for another system that will potentially sort out the timelines and provide other mechanisms to enhance LW releases, but until it’s confirmed for a specific build I can’t divulge more specifics.

#962 - Nov. 1, 2013, 1:50 p.m.

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you know i am super busy today and will be posting over the weekend. I am very much enjoying the discussion especially around Dynamic Event usage and failure. Thanks for your patience and continued discussion.

Chris

#1093 - Nov. 3, 2013, 11:13 a.m.

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
So Ive posted more than my fair share in this thread, both asking questions such as “Arenanet, what are your thoughts on utilizing phasing technology” to answering each question/conversation directed statement from arenanet, as well as posting my own ideas, suggestions and criticisms. I think many have done this as well. I have also encouraged others who, early on, questioned the entire purpose of this thread when they have seen very little interaction from arenanet, to be patient in waiting for arenanet’s involvement.

While Bobby Stein has been the most vocal in this thread, I am a bit disappointed that other key folks chime in once or twice and then leave for a few days. The thread has been live for five days with very little interaction and collaborating. Unless the whole point was just to give us a place to collectively talk about one topic where you sit back and gather our opinions passively. However, to that I would simply say “read the forums a bit more, we talk about these this every day”.

Where is the collaboration portion from arenanet? You have our feedback, there are several hot topics that continue to recur such as :

1. Cadence of release too fast
2. Cadence of story too slow and disjointed from each release.
3. Little impact on the world of Tyria, and little impact on your character being a ‘hero’
4. Rewards
5. Success/Failure
—to list a few hot topics…—

Many of us have touched on each of these several times over and on a whole these are hot topics. I understand you are developing the game, but where is arenanets involvement? If you could not devote time to this initiative, better not to start it at all. Otherwise, it just looks like you are attemping to appease the masses by saying
“Hey, heres a thread where we will listen and collaboratively discuss”…Only, you don’t discuss. We do.

Hi Cesmode,

You appear to be very combative in your responses and i would ask that you take a deep breath every so often and approach the initiative in the spirit it was created and take the time to actually read and think about what has been posted.

I say this because each of your points (aside from number 5 which was a request for more discussion and will be added to by me shortly) has actually had commentary on it.

1: I said we plan to move forward as we have been. I later said (and as with everything we do) we will continue to appraise quality of the releases as we continue to improve our deployment with the platform and that if through internal and external discussion we felt that the quality was not meeting the expected level then we would reappraise and evolve.

2: To this point i agreed in my main discussion post and talked about how we would solve this problem moving forward. Specifically by ensuring that LW was at the core of the majority of our releases and that we intend to ensure that arcs have little to no gaps in relation to the macro level story arc.

3: I also talked to this and made it clear that the platform is still in its infancy and that we have to move in a balanced development approach to ensure that we don’t start running before we can walk and that our main focus is ensuring quality and then moving up to the next level of sophistication in regard to what the platform is capable of. I also clearly stated that we want players to shape the world (physically and in terms of the evolving history) and that we needed to make the players more central to an epic story experience, where there needs to be more ‘meaningful’ connection to the world and what goes on within it.

4: Regarding Rewards i also spoke to this saying that we need to have more rewards that ‘celebrate’ the player’s accomplishments that are like rites of passage and that also meet the expectations of time vs. investment.

5: I will be posting on this discussion shortly now that i have had time to read and think about what the community has put forward.

Post like this Cesmode really don’t need to occur. Many of your questions can be answered by keeping up to date with the thread and understanding what the stated goals are of the initiative. I appreciate your feedback and some of your commentary but please understand that this slows the process down and can also derail extremely valuable discussion.

I hope you understand,

chris

#1095 - Nov. 3, 2013, 11:22 a.m.

Lunaire.5827:

Finnway.2183:

Faowri.4159:

I feel pressured to complete the achievements ASAP so I can get on with the content I would rather be playing,

This summarizes how I feel about achievements in the living story.

I think there should be less achievements (like 5-6) for the meta, and have a separate achievement category for doing LS dailies to earn a bi-weekly chest (just of like dailies and monthlies). This way, players who like to grind will still be rewarded, and players who only have 5 hours to spend can still complete the meta.

I totally agree with this. This way achievement grinders can still have lots of achievements to earn, and people with less time to play can still get involved and earn the limited-time rewards without feeling rushed and pressured.

I agree with this also. We are certainly trying to improve with our achievements in terms of activities, time requirements and rewards. I feel that we have been making good progress but we aren’t quite there yet. Soon though.

Chris

#1101 - Nov. 3, 2013, 11:50 a.m.

Nike.2631:

BobbyStein.2315:

Interesting idea. Can you provide an example of how you would imagine it working?

Inc.4753:

Alright, let’s give it a try:

We escort a charr tank to a certain enemy gate to take it down and invade their base. Upon failure, we could get another event that requires us to get explosives to blow up the gate instead. This event will be harder as the players now have to get close to the gate to drop the explosives. Or, to add a little diversity, an Ash Legion soldier pops up, makes some sniffy remark on how the Iron Legion can’t even keep their own toys in one piece, and offers to take the group via a second, secret (perhaps even previously locked) path into the base.

I like that. Let me generalize the concept and take on the road:

What’s being suggested is adding “second chance” events. Plan A has failed. Rather than just fall back in disarray, we get to try plan B, which is specifically designed to play to a different set of player strengths/builds than plan A did. Frontal assault didn’t work. Here’s a mini-jump puzzle that opens up that gets you to the goal – giving the avid jumper with weaker gear who couldn’t down the doorguards by brute force a way to shine.

Now imagine redoing the entire southern march from Fort Trinity to the Rally Camp with Second Chance technology. Failed to secure the beach for the trebuchets by plowing in all iron-fisted? A pact submarine pops up off shore and you get a second chance to secure it by playing siege gunner from the deck. If either event succeeds, you are able to advance on to the assault on the first island across the bridge.

Later in the chain you have to hold that first island against a counter attack. If you fail, instead of immediately being booted back to the trebuchet beach, you get a second chance event – maybe some sort of footrace to reach a horn that lets you call in an NPC Airstrike so that you end up holding on to the island and can advance to the next stage of the march. Again, giving you a way to showcase an alternate skillset, and a way to not have your progress kicked back because the guy that helped you take the island in the first place wandered off before the counter attack event started.

Second Chances, especially creative ones, would open up a world of heroism and let you actually access the later portions of some of the really long chains, better leveraging the work you’ve already done.

As to implementing DE expansion. If I were king, I’d pick pairs of zones, of radically different level ranges, and focus all the additions in those two zones so that I could announce the introduction not a~

“We added 50 events… somewhere”

But as~

“Things are heating up in Gendarren Fields. Not only have the Centaur attacks taken on a sinister new dimension, but the Inquest has begin probing the Headquarters of the Vigil for weakness. Return to this war-torn frontier in this permanent Living World release and be among the first to raise your sword against the new and renewed enemies of Kryta and Lion’s Arch!”

Hi Nike and All Those that have been discussing Failure Consequences,

Your comments and discussion have been really cool. I picked this post to quote because Nike has put forward some really cool ideas and very much in a Brainstorm fashion.

Internally for a while we now we have been talking about positive and negative consequences of completion or failure of activities and challenges within the game and more specifically around events. For example Jon Peters one of our Design Leads was putting forward the idea of the above rules/paradigms around TQ. So for example if the players are fail to take down TQ then this would cause a ‘Darkness’ to fall across the zone, perhaps where he would fly around attacking locations and creating new events. A second chance on TQ would therefore be to complete these events and then perhaps rally the NPC forces in the zone to help you take him down. A positive modifier could bring ‘Light’ to the land for example and lower cost on NPC traders, give greater rewards from events and perhaps even create new events. Of course this is all brainstorming but it is the natural evolution of our current platform.

We have for example as Nike points out already started down this path with some events in game but we have not extended it further just yet. This is because we try to approach the game from a balanced development standpoint, whereby we aim to take systems, mechanics and features to a point where we are happy with them all before moving onto more sophisticated avenues. I guess the analogy would be that we want to ensure that we build on firm foundations so we are more efficient as we move forward.

(cont.)

#1102 - Nov. 3, 2013, 11:51 a.m.

So with all of this in mind it would be cool to carry on discussing around this area in much the same form as Nike has. Specifically brainstorming on top of the foundation of known systems and functionality. I do also want to point out that someone mentioned (sorry i forget who) the ability to potentially build forts etc and then gain new events, goals and rewards from them by protecting and nurturing your land. Wouldn’t that be awesome!?

Chris

#1104 - Nov. 3, 2013, 11:58 a.m.

Lunaire.5827:

Also, @Chris and Anet.

For what it’s worth, Guild Wars is the only MMO I’ve ever played where I actively see changes based on community request, discussions with the community, and company staff actively playing the game.

So while although some of my prior posts may have been critical, it is because I care about the game, and I want you to know that the efforts you have made are appreciated.

Thanks Lunaire. We really do spend an awful lot of time thinking and listening and we fall down on engagement and follow up so that folks know we do hugely value feedback. This comes down to time and an area we are actively trying to improve on. I really appreciate your posts and patience.

Thanks,

Chris

#1105 - Nov. 3, 2013, 12:03 p.m.

Hi,

I also wanted to say thanks to all those who have posted their favorite and least favorite events and also to those like Konig who have responded and discussed based on my ‘discussion’ post that goes into detail on what i thought were some of the main themes. I have blocked out 2 hours tomorrow to carry on the discussion in these two areas with you all.

I am now going to take the family out for some swimming and some lunch and if i get time will get back into discussing these areas before tomorrow. If i don’t get the time today then i will pick it up tomorrow.

Thanks all,

Chris

#1106 - Nov. 3, 2013, 12:05 p.m.

Gele.2048:

honestly i dont think we gona make some impact on the living story in generals if u ask me now what was living story before this i dont even remeber even do i have done all of them they are not that good to have that epic feeling and like i had when first time i kill some big raid boss lets sey in wow or in aion there is nothing that leaving impact for me personaly and i like that we have gazlion updates but they are just not good ,difrent arcs all story are epicly shallow its like worst tv show ever i still love gw , and i will always play it but not cuz the living story is good .
And i think its time to place some darkness into the game its to childish .just my opinion hi all .
Darko

Yep the story needs to more ‘Epic’, meaningful and better at evoking emotion.

Chris

#1109 - Nov. 3, 2013, 12:14 p.m.

Ronah.2869:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So with all of this in mind it would be cool to carry on discussing around this area in much the same form as Nike has. Specifically brainstorming on top of the foundation of known systems and functionality.

Chris

How about rewarding the players who do this brainstorming? Ok, suggestions may come free but brainstorming activities should be rewarded, right?

As far as I am concerned, GW2 is not a finished game and it will never be. it is just lingering around an open beta stage 2 phase where the players take the role of testers every 2 weeks. It kind of reminds me of Firefall where it is still in open beta only that those guys haven’t released 30 zones but only one

Hi Ronah,

Your idea of rewarding CD participation is interesting and we will discuss it in the next phase after the topic threads are closed.

I disagree with your second statement i think (i am a little confused by it). GW2 is an evolving game and Living World is an evolving platform and will continue to be. By it’s very nature it is open ended and working with the community for input, ideas and discussion is one of the key opportunities a developer and community is afforded in the live space.

Chris

#1157 - Nov. 3, 2013, 6:47 p.m.

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

—snipped for brevity—

Post like this Cesmode really don’t need to occur. Many of your questions can be answered by keeping up to date with the thread and understanding what the stated goals are of the initiative. I appreciate your feedback and some of your commentary but please understand that this slows the process down and can also derail extremely valuable discussion.

I hope you understand,

chris

Chris,
I do not feel that I am combative in my responses. I have encouraged other folks to be patient with arenanet’s involvement in this thread early on. However, now that it has been 5 days, some of us are wondering when arenanet will become a bit more involved in this collaborative discussion. We just dont want this to become a one way street and turn into every other thread on these forums.

With that said, apologies if it at all detracted from the purpose of the thread. My intent was to try to get your attention so we can have more collaboration in this thread, rather than the players speaking their minds, to which we do every day. If there isnt going to be a lot of discussion between developer and player, then the initiative itself fails and this just becomes another thread. Which, in case, we can refer to the countless threads on the Living Story debate to get the players’ pulse on the subject.

I did see your responses to the numbered items in my post that you previously touched on in the thread, I was simply hoping for a little more back and forth to the main issues

Edit: It looks like theres been some real discussion today(I have been out all day). Good stuff.

Hi Cesmode,

I just got back and caught the end of the Seahawks game!!!

I really appreciate your response Cesmode. Perhaps combative wasn’t the right word and it is great to see such a mature reply. I am reading through yours and the other posts from this morning and am going to spend some time mulling the discussion over. It is very intricate and insightful currently.

I have freed up my early afternoon tomorrow and am looking forward to getting back into the discussion and now i am likely going to jump in game and do a dungeon or two!

Chris

P.S: Go Hawks! Note: I apologize up front for any derailing of the discussion this may cause (-:

#1214 - Nov. 4, 2013, 9:34 a.m.

Jaken.6801:

How will you try to rectify the messed up turn the delivery of Scarlet has gotten since the Queens Speech?

For starters, I’m devoting more time for script reviews. Our aggressive release schedule means that our VO needs to be ready for recording a full two months before each pair of updates, which can sometimes be tricky if the design changes along the way or we find out that certain tech or art requests cannot be satisfied in time for the scheduled build.

We’re also looking into ways that we can better communicate backstory and lore inside the game.

Jaken.6801:

I personaly have no real idea how you want to with it.
You allready started making some “changes” to her story in interviews. Trying to calm down the angry mob by explaining your intentions (before, or the ones who are now needed. Since you decide the story you can say whatever you like, because we don`t know anything), or what we misunderstood.
Nevertheless, you really f***ed up here, because now everything you will do, feels like nothing more then trying to save your hides.

You’ll just have to see how it turns out. Remember that our releases take a full four months from concept to completion. While our overall plan hasn’t deviated much from the initial outline, we’ve made a few adjustments along the way for a variety of reasons. Any changes we’ve made to the story presentation were based on a number of factors: internal feedback, postmortems from the LW teams, fan feedback on the official forums and elsewhere (e.g. Reddit), and design audits.

So while we’re definitely listening to feedback and looking for some creative ways to impart story with our available systems, we’re not writing the game based on a small sample of opinions from our player base.

Jaken.6801:

Everything you do will not be enough sadly.
- Revealing her “real” backstory in any way (like beeing a puppet herself to someone, beeing delusional (the current story at least)), won`t work, because you would just retcon for the sake of pleasing everyone.
- killing her off would bring joy to a lot of people, but will feel like: “kitten we made a mistake, quick lets bury her and hope she will be quickly forgotten.”
- making her a decent character? unlikely. The mistakes are in the past (her as a character and yours, because the failed delivery), so pulling her out of that hole right now really requires a miracle, since right now many people won`t listen or care about anything related to her.

If some folks “won’t listen or care about anything related to her” then they’ve already made up their minds. For the rest of the people playing the game, I would imagine that they’re curious as to where her story is going because we haven’t revealed as much as people have wanted. The truth of the matter is that we’ve been planning an epic conclusion to Scarlet’s story for a while now. I really wish I could say more but that would spoil what’s to come.

Jaken.6801:

So yeah. I don`t really care about the restirctions of: “we can`t say our future plans”, because this is just PR. Saying things like: “we have plans, or we allready discussed it.” doesn`t satisfy anyone, because we heared it again and again.
This goes for all developers here. We like to hear statements about where YOU thought you went wrong. Where you were suprised to here: “hey, the audience doesn`t like what we did.”

I think I’ve been pretty open in discussing the story challenges and areas we can improve. If you disagree, you’ll have to give me more specific feedback.

You have to understand that developers are not at liberty to discuss specifics regarding upcoming releases until we’re absolutely certain that they will make it into a build. Also, we have to be careful not to get in the way of Community or Marketing initiatives. It’s a delicate balance.

Jaken.6801:

Say why they liked certain content, or answer problems that are present? How about having them give backstory to past events. Explain why they did certain things. What was the reasoning behind the watchknights for example.
This here could be the chance to give us information about your inner workings, about your developement, about the way you are thinking and evolving this beautifull world.

I’ll have to consider that for future posts. These are usually reserved for project postmortems but may make for interesting discussion topics.

#1245 - Nov. 4, 2013, 1:12 p.m.

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Yep the story needs to more ‘Epic’, meaningful and better at evoking emotion.

Chris

I think this exact quote is what’s really hamstringing your writing team and the direction of the Living Story in general.

You don’t need to chase after Epic – epic is a natural outgrowth of scale.

What you need to focus on is ‘Compelling’.

In Kessex Hills there is a little stand-alone escort event in the Destroyer caves. A child from the nearby town has fallen into the caves and can’t get out. Lead her to safety.

Ok, first off, it’s a little girl and she’s surrounded by monsters that want to eat her. If you’re not a complete sociopath, you’re already committed to the endeavor just to put an end to this outrage. Second, I empathize with her: I fell down that same kitten crack while looking around – that’s how I found her in the first place. The monsters aren’t just after her, we’re totally in this together (yes, I realize I could just waypoint away, but that’s for chumps). Is time to hero up.

The fact that I’m on my rifle-toting engineer and I’m practically screaming lines from Aliens at the screen as we shoot our way out of there ("You want some of this? And you? How about that, come on! blam-blam-blam-blam!) is just a nice bonus.

And did you notice how I said ‘we’ there? She doesn’t do a thing except cower or follow along doggedly, but we are a party now, making our way out of the cave. Because I care.

There is NOTHING in the Scarlett Invasions that comes close to that. Nothing is under threat. Nothing says ‘step up, hero’. It may look EPIC-EPIc-EPic-Epic-epic-epic ((echo effects)), because it’s Big… but it has no heart. It’s a safari for big-game hunters, not a chance for heroism.

Give me a reason to care. I’ll suspend disbelief (no way pointing out just because), I’ll buy in if you let me. But don’t confuse scale with relevance.

Some of the finest victories are small.

Like seeing a little girl make her way home.

Hi,

Just to be clear by epic i am referring to more mature (in some instances), more meaningful, more relevant. Please forgive me for the use of that word it seems to have derailed the conversation somewhat.

Chris

#1246 - Nov. 4, 2013, 1:19 p.m.

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

#1252 - Nov. 4, 2013, 1:25 p.m.

rizzo.1079:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

I think the point is that her story so far is less an arc and more of a line.

Yep i think this point is valid.

Chris

#1256 - Nov. 4, 2013, 1:28 p.m.

rizzo.1079:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

rizzo.1079:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

I think the point is that her story so far is less an arc and more of a line.

Yep i think this point is valid.

Chris

Cool…well that’s honestly my biggest personal gripe with the story so if we’re on the same page here I, for one, am happier than I was before:)

We are on the same page.

Chris

#1259 - Nov. 4, 2013, 1:33 p.m.

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

do you think you can still save the arc from the poor opinions of scarlet? will you continue with scarlet even if the player still hate her? will you ever give us a poll so bobby can stop calling the people who dislike scarlet a small amount?

I think we have learnt a great deal from where we are now with the Scarlet Arc. I won’t talk about future plans for her i am afraid as this goes against the rules i set for this initiative. I appreciate all the feedback in regard to our current story telling foundations and look forward to seeing the game evolve from them.

Chris

#1261 - Nov. 4, 2013, 1:37 p.m.

gidorah.4960:

minbariguy.7504:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I’d stated that you were prioritizing release dates over quality. I get that you guys have every intention to release quality content. You’re all very passionate and committed to what you do, and you obviously want to create things that people enjoy.

However, allow me to make an observation. I’ve noticed that when you discuss future content or features (other than Living Story), you never commit to a release date. My understanding was that this is because game design can be unpredictable: things change, features may not work exactly as you intended, bugs may pop up, or it may simply take more time to polish a feature for release than you intended. And you don’t want to release content before it is ready, hence…you never commit to a release date.

Except for when it comes to Living Story.

Suddenly, every two weeks, just like clockwork, there it is. Right on schedule. How, then, can it be that your priority is on the quality of the release, when you are committed to releasing it on a specific date no matter what?

If you are saying that you now have the ability to make sure that content is ready by a specific date, then surely you have the ability to commit to dates for all your releases (not just Living Story). But of course, we know that this isn’t the case.

So while you may want quality, it certainly isn’t your priority. It can’t be. Not on a specific release schedule. It’s impossible.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.

I would be really interested to know what you guys are doing to meet my concerns regarding the cadence. Because I honestly have no idea how you can do that while simultaneously stating that the cadence will continue unaltered no matter what any of us says.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

I’m curious as to what these discussions are like. When you are having these discussions, does it ever come up that many people are vigorously opposed to it? Or is it the impression of the team that the current cadence is both popular and desired? If so, do you have any metrics to back this up?

Finally, a simple question:

Why are you unwilling to adjust the release cadence? What is the reason that it must continue, no matter what anyone says? Can you at least help us understand that?

everyone keeps bringing up the release schedule even after you have said it is non negotiable this is the best written post expressing our concerns and questions about it.

At no point did i say it is non negotiable . I said that currently we have no intention of changing the plan, however if we feel that we cannot reach the quality bar we and the player’s expect under the current cadence then we will evolve to ensure we are giving player’s the best possible experience. We have a lot of areas we can improve in to meet this goal and I personally would like to see us continue to work in improving in these areas.

Note: I have specifically laid out these areas in my posts.

Chris

#1285 - Nov. 4, 2013, 3:53 p.m.

bradderzh.2378:

Chris,

Any opinions on nike’s TIDES dynamic map idea?

Hi,

I do have opinions (-: however i have lost some time today that i thought i had. Basically i want to feedback on the DE discussion and get more time to read what people liked and didn’t like about the events they have played. With this is mind it would be awesome for these discussions to continue if folks still have anymore insights or discussion points?

And as soon as i get some more time i will get into the discussion again.

Chris

#1287 - Nov. 4, 2013, 3:57 p.m.

Nike.2631:

rizzo.1079:

I think the point is that her story so far is less an arc and more of a line.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Yep i think this point is valid.

Normally I’m all for opaque geometry analogies (no, really!) but, um…?

What are you two trying to say?

Also…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

…but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

‘Understood by all’? Is it understood by anyone not inside the ANet offices? Outside of the foreshadowing imposed by the graphic for the next release (I lean towards that being one of her minions standing behind her, not a ‘mysterious master’ reveal), and the assumption that after handing over all those spores to Marjory I’m be able to go into the tower in a few weeks, I have Zero Clue what Scarlet Briar’s endgame looks like. Or how many more mix-and-match alliances she’s entitled to before moving to some sort of resolution. I mean, if we finally get the centaurs/oozes team-up I’ve been dreaming of, great . Otherwise, lets get to the final act, shall we?

Was there some big long-term hints in the Aether Path? Because I had real life those weeks and missed that block…

That the story line around Scarlet has been flat, specifically no clear angle toward goal or resolution.

And in regard to your second question as it relates to my above point. It is safe to say that goals and trajectory toward resolution are not clear yet outside of Arena. There are clues however.

Chris

#1290 - Nov. 4, 2013, 4:10 p.m.

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

You have to give up on that as a justification/defense.

It doesn’t matter if the ending is amazing if half your audience has tossed the book in the trash by the second chapter. Half being generous if the posted reaction to Scarlet is in any way representative. It’s like watching an M. Night Shayamalan flick – there is so much focus on ‘the twist’ that the fundamentals of storytelling get abandoned. You get a terrible movie in the first two reels and the third reel cannot reverse that no matter how clever.

We can already see the text portions of the dialogue in ToN – things you can change on a short lead time – trying to adapt to feedback. Believe me, I noticed. And I’m sure you’ll continue to struggle to salvage the credibility and improve impact of the Living Story as you work through those parts that are too far along to change course entirely. It is a learning experience. But sometimes the solidarity you are showing to past efforts makes it hard for us to be certain you’re getting the message. I will try to withhold judgment on the remainder of the arc – to come at it with fresh eyes. But please understand damage was done by what has gone before.

On the Epicness of the Living Story:

I think I was less than clear on how the ‘pursuit of Epic’ is derailing things in the Living Story:

Scarlet is never allowed to JUST BE COOL. Every time an NPC in setting opens their mouth about her, its to tell us she’s THE COOLEST EV-AR. Horribly horrible things have been done to try and build her credibility by brute force instead of organic progression.

I hate to say it, but for me it all comes down to one in-game piece of dialogue. “She graduated from all Three of the Asuran Colleges…” ((screeetch- car crash noise!)) Say WHAT??!? In that one moment the entire arc DIED for me. The ego-projection was strong in this one. Because if you’ve played the game – doubly so if you played an Asura – this is preposterous. And no amount of backpedaling or hand-waving in web-site fiction changes that. As offended as I am by it, I’m even more offended that apparently nobody in the writing bullpen raised their hand and asked the question “Isn’t that… isn’t that a little dumb?” Somebody’s enthusiasm for the new super-hero, this Dark Trahearne you got to building rode right over all common sense in the pursuit of EPIC-EPIc-EPic-Epic-epic ((echo effects)).

And what’s so sad, is if it had just been “She graduated from two of the Asuran colleges!” I think my eyebrow would have gone up, but I’d also be saying to myself, “…Ok, I guess she is supposed to be an incredible Engineer. Lets see where they go with this…”

Sometimes the line between awesome and absurd is just that narrow.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think we have learnt a great deal from where we are now with the Scarlet Arc. I won’t talk about future plans for her i am afraid as this goes against the rules i set for this initiative. I appreciate all the feedback in regard to our current story telling foundations and look forward to seeing the game evolve from them.

I hadn’t gotten to this post when I wrote the above, so I’m folding it in here now.

As understated as this reply is, I choose to believe it is acknowledgement the message was received. While I can’t wait for Scarlet to exit stage left forever, I’ll try to look forward to what comes after with renewed enthusiasm.

Hi Nike,

I really don’t understand why you think i am defending or justifying anything. I am discussing and listening to the feedback and folding that into actions as necessary. My point is very simple, which is that i agree with much of the foundational feedback regarding the dynamic of story within the living world, but that there is a lot of info, plans, and goals that the discussion group is currently unaware of. Thus my point is it is better not to turn assumptions into hard facts and this will lead to less valuable discussion. My point isn’t about the performance of what happens as this arc plays out, it is about what we are learning based on the facts in hand. And of course we are listening.

I hope you can appreciate this as i appreciate your dialogue and understand that when it looks like a point has hit home, it probably has.

Chris

#1293 - Nov. 4, 2013, 4:19 p.m.

Jaken.6801:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi,

I do have opinions (-: however i have lost some time today that i thought i had. Basically i want to feedback on the DE discussion and get more time to read what people liked and didn’t like about the events they have played. With this is mind it would be awesome for these discussions to continue if folks still have anymore insights or discussion points?

And as soon as i get some more time i will get into the discussion again.

Chris

Which events are you talking about? Just to clarify, so we can answer more properly:
LS events or DEs?

There is quite a difference here, since the DEs are the ones we have always access to, while the LS ones are only temporary (for the most part) and have a different influence on how we relate to them.

As many are “grindy”, they need many people, however if the masses aren`t there, you might realize that they aren`t fun.

That said. I prefer events that have a meaning, a story, a reason for me helping in the area. Better is if i not only get my little “bling, here is your money and karma” but actually see something happening afterwards.
It doesn`t have to be a new quest, but the person i helped actually doing something at the place i left him. Doing a little jiggle, starting to talk with someone to give some more information.
Maybe talk about the “adventure” he had, as i protected him from something.

there are events like this in game. Some don`t even give you credit, however you are able to experience them. Best example is the ghost Dolyak. I love this little bit.

Events are nice, loot is nice, however i also enjoy the little nuances sourounding the perpetual slaughter our heroes are commiting to get their shiny.

LS events feel cheap now, because they are mostly old events with “new mechanics” tossed in.
They started great though. One of my favourite is still the scavenger hunt for Mad King Thorns Book, or the (sadly buggy) one for the perpetrator with the first soutsun event….

However i just noticed… These “events” and our archievments right now are something very familiar…
These are traditional quests. We have a start, we get our “mission” in the archievment panel or from our flavor-story-character of the patch and then we do and like it.

And i don`t mind. So yeah, what do you mean by events?

Good point!

Continuation of discussions in regard to the Dynamic Event evolution discussions.

And secondarily continuation of discussion around the communities favorite and least favorite LW Events.

Good call,

Chris

#1297 - Nov. 4, 2013, 4:39 p.m.

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

That the story line around Scarlet has been flat, specifically no clear angle toward goal or resolution.

Ah! Thank you. I get it now.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

And in regard to your second question as it relates to my above point. It is safe to say that goals and trajectory toward resolution are not clear yet outside of Arena. There are clues however.

I miss clues sometimes, so maybe there will be a point when we’re looking back over the first… ‘volume’ lets call it, of the Living Story and all these little tidbits will fall into place. I’ve seen it done well in Doctor Who, but I’ve gotta warn ya, in my experience its a hard structure to pull off entertainingly.

One thing for sleuths better than me to ponder: In the Scarlet invasions, the portals shared graphics with the Steam-monsters portals. There is a Portal in Kessex Hills right now delivering Toxic Forces into an area SE of the Tower of Nightmares. It has a very different graphic, showing somewhere… new. You might want to hang around there and take a look. I’ll try to grab a screenie latter.

[sidebar]
If the Devs are still podering ‘rewards for participation in Collaborative Discussion’, I admit I’d take a laurel and about 2,000 luck credited to my account – I’ve spent a LOT of time typing when I could have been logged in with the spore-zergs .
[/end sidebar]

No worries Nike regarding your first comment, i could do a better job of explanation sometimes.

For example, when i referred to clues being there my point is that i believe that whilst clues are cool because they can instill a great sense of player engagement and theory crafting, we need to do a better job of exposition and context in relation to Living World storytelling. An area that we have been improving in and intend to continue doing so.

Chris

#1301 - Nov. 4, 2013, 4:58 p.m.

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Nike,

I really don’t understand why you think i am defending or justifying anything. I am discussing and listening to the feedback and folding that into actions as necessary.

I’m sorry. Truthfully, I don’t want to dwell on Scarlet. I have much, much more fun when we’re talking about Dynamic Events. (Something you may want to consider calving off into a new Collaborative discussion thread to ease the reading burden of everyone – I don’t think we’ve established a rule yet that there can’t be two open and running at once . Among other things it would allow you to bring the two topics to closure separately.))

Because scarlet is largely dead to me, I’m on to the post mortem in my thinking. When I say things to the effect of ‘a great ending cannot be used to defend/justify a weak start’ I’m already looking forward to the next volume. NEXT TIME, I hope we see the lessons learned here applied from the outset. Then we can find all-new plot potholes to trip over .

My point is very simple, which is that i agree with much of the foundational feedback regarding the dynamic of story within the living world, but that there is a lot of info, plans, and goals that the discussion group is currently unaware of. Thus my point is it is better not to turn assumptions into hard facts and this will lead to less valuable discussion. My point isn’t about the performance of what happens as this arc plays out, it is about what we are learning based on the facts in hand. And of course we are listening.

I imaging that last section seems to you like a near-echo of things you’ve said before, but for me, just now, I get it. Finally. I think I missed the intent to shape discussion as we move forward. While I’ll try to rein in my urge to froth at the mouth when a certain ginger-topped anti-heroine comes up, we are a bit of a handicap talking about the future of the Living Story in any concrete fashion: we don’t know the future, and you can’t talk about it.

Analyzing highs and lows to date I get. I’m just not sure how to offer anything forward-facing other than “I hope to get back to wrecking face on the Elder Dragons.” Or “I hope that the scale of the Living Stories is ratcheted back, while the intimacy and the commitment I feel towards it improves.”

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I hope you can appreciate this as i appreciate your dialogue and understand that when it looks like a point has hit home, it probably has.

Chris

((puts down sledgehammer))

Oh good. Because it’s exhausting belaboring the point sometimes .

I’m sure you know from my fondness for ‘Second Chances’ as a narrative tool, I’m a big fan of the heroism embodied by persistence…

Your efforts here have been heroic. Thank you.

I think i can do better to explain. Honestly your response is excellent, but i need to remember that i have a lot more info than others and that i should provide more context when i make a high level point. I will do better to stay cognoscente of this.

Your input to the discussion has been great Nike,

Chris

#1308 - Nov. 4, 2013, 5:22 p.m.

Randulf.7614:

Chris – is it possible to get a separate thread for the DE discussion? Largely because it doesn’t directly pertain to the Living Story and there is a small fear some of the LW feedback has got lost amongst the DE discussion (I understnad they can connect, but they are 2 big topics and if you guys are as busy as you appear, it would be easier to sift through as well I’d imagine)

There’s a weight of great discussion going on here, but the title isn’t advertising it is about DE’s. You could feasibly get more people involved in a separate thread (and it doesn’t need a cut off date either since people can opt in/out at will)

Hi Randulf,

I agree that we should and will have a separate discussion thread for DE’s foundational design, evolution and quality. What i am interested in here however is how DE’s can relate to story telling and game play synergy and the overall evolution of Living World. Therefore within these bounds i think it is a great topic for this thread.

Hope this makes sense?

Chris

#1313 - Nov. 4, 2013, 5:36 p.m.

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Randulf.7614:

Chris – is it possible to get a separate thread for the DE discussion? Largely because it doesn’t directly pertain to the Living Story and there is a small fear some of the LW feedback has got lost amongst the DE discussion (I understnad they can connect, but they are 2 big topics and if you guys are as busy as you appear, it would be easier to sift through as well I’d imagine)

There’s a weight of great discussion going on here, but the title isn’t advertising it is about DE’s. You could feasibly get more people involved in a separate thread (and it doesn’t need a cut off date either since people can opt in/out at will)

Hi Randulf,

I agree that we should and will have a separate discussion thread for DE’s foundational design, evolution and quality. What i am interested in here however is how DE’s can relate to story telling and game play synergy and the overall evolution of Living World. Therefore within these bounds i think it is a great topic for this thread.

Hope this makes sense?

Chris

Chris, please see one of my earlier posts on this. I think it directly relates to what you are looking for here…Global Dominance system.

Will do Cesmode. I intend to read Tides of Darkness again and your suggestions, have a bit of a think and reply when i get some time (-:

Whilst i may not be responding as much as i wish i could i do want to say that this initiative has already impacted many of our discussions internally and will do so moving forward. So far (outside of lack of time on my part and other developers) CD is proving to be extremely valuable. But as they say the proof is in the pudding, and whilst we have already been heavily influenced by the community in the past regarding course correction in development, i am really looking forward to us all seeing the fruits of these discussions in the future.

Chris

#1314 - Nov. 4, 2013, 5:37 p.m.

Randulf.7614:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Randulf.7614:

Chris – is it possible to get a separate thread for the DE discussion? Largely because it doesn’t directly pertain to the Living Story and there is a small fear some of the LW feedback has got lost amongst the DE discussion (I understnad they can connect, but they are 2 big topics and if you guys are as busy as you appear, it would be easier to sift through as well I’d imagine)

There’s a weight of great discussion going on here, but the title isn’t advertising it is about DE’s. You could feasibly get more people involved in a separate thread (and it doesn’t need a cut off date either since people can opt in/out at will)

Hi Randulf,

I agree that we should and will have a separate discussion thread for DE’s foundational design, evolution and quality. What i am interested in here however is how DE’s can relate to story telling and game play synergy and the overall evolution of Living World. Therefore within these bounds i think it is a great topic for this thread.

Hope this makes sense?

Chris

Oh I don’t disagree at all and understand totally how they synergise with the story element. I’m just worried other LW topics may get buried since the emphasis seems now exclusively on DE development. If all topics are being covered evenly, then I’ll go back to reading what is so far one of the few interesting threads on these forums!

:)

Absolutely (-:

Chris

#1324 - Nov. 4, 2013, 6:05 p.m.

Jaken.6801:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Randulf.7614:

Chris – is it possible to get a separate thread for the DE discussion? Largely because it doesn’t directly pertain to the Living Story and there is a small fear some of the LW feedback has got lost amongst the DE discussion (I understnad they can connect, but they are 2 big topics and if you guys are as busy as you appear, it would be easier to sift through as well I’d imagine)

There’s a weight of great discussion going on here, but the title isn’t advertising it is about DE’s. You could feasibly get more people involved in a separate thread (and it doesn’t need a cut off date either since people can opt in/out at will)

Hi Randulf,

I agree that we should and will have a separate discussion thread for DE’s foundational design, evolution and quality. What i am interested in here however is how DE’s can relate to story telling and game play synergy and the overall evolution of Living World. Therefore within these bounds i think it is a great topic for this thread.

Hope this makes sense?

Chris

Chris, please see one of my earlier posts on this. I think it directly relates to what you are looking for here…Global Dominance system.

Will do Cesmode. I intend to read Tides of Darkness again and your suggestions, have a bit of a think and reply when i get some time (-:

Whilst i may not be responding as much as i wish i could i do want to say that this initiative has already impacted many of our discussions internally and will do so moving forward. So far (outside of lack of time on my part and other developers) CD is proving to be extremely valuable. But as they say the proof is in the pudding, and whilst we have already been heavily influenced by the community in the past regarding course correction in development, i am really looking forward to us all seeing the fruits of these discussions in the future.

Chris

Sweet, i love these statements.
I have a silly question, though.

Can we have some blogposts from some teammembers, telling us how they work and how things have changed. Some retrospective basicly?
Sorry for beeing offtopic. but i really like the more personal stories of the people involved in the projects i like.

How long will these CDs go btw.? when is the cut off date and will we get some “mid term results” which might shift the discusion to some specific topics.
We got some lead from you Chris allready, which is awesome, but with the high amount of ideas collected here (and i bet this takes a lot of time to digest and rate), some kind of filtering might be nescessary. Maybe closing this one here and opening anew with a new direction.
Like the new “events” that are beeing sugested, this here beeing the start event and is now snowballing into new ones.

Well, basicly i like just more juicy info on where we are right now. Like an update from your side, since we can`t see it.

hm.. that is keeping me up now, it is past 1am… i am hitting the matress now and might come up with some new ideas tommorow. hopefully i am able to articulate them a bit better, then my previous entires

Hi Jaken,

Good points. To answer some of your questions i would like us to continue the CD initiative indefinitely assuming we are ALL finding it to be a valuable exercise. In regard to this particular thread there is no close date yet due mainly to lack of time on our side. This allows us to give the thread the respect it is due. I am therefore unsure about when we will sticky the thread. I will know more when i have caught up a little bit, for sure though there has been a huge amount of value so far but i do want to continue discussing DEs pertaining to LW and peoples favorite and least favorite events and why.

Finally once these threads close we will have an open thread on the process of CD and what we can do better as a group and discussion around best working practices moving forward.

Chris

#1397 - Nov. 5, 2013, 11:20 a.m.

techjunkey.8253:

Wow, a lot of content in this thread already…

Temporary vs Permanent Content
LW content motivates players to log in to experience the content while it is fresh. The time limit on the content temporarily concentrates player activity, which smooths the open world experience (e.g. dynamic events). Once the LW cycle progresses, however, some great instanced content (dungeons, story arcs, …) is essentially lost. Rather than increasing the amount of content available to players, one piece of content is swapped for another. Essentially, this leaves players with the same number of content options they had before, which causes a feeling of stagnation. Though individually small, these portions of LW content would accrue if made permanently available, offering players a greater variety of choices when they have tired of other content.

I think this raises an interesting question, what do you consider to be “temporary” content, and what qualifies (in your mind) as content that occurs and drives the living story forward it makes sense to have go away, vs. that which remains?

There is a thin-line between content that drives the story forward, which if it lasts forever feels like the story never really progresses, vs. content that all goes away and ends up feeling like the world never actually progresses. Which releases, and more specifically what aspects of specific releases do you feel were successful balancing content that didn’t remain forever that progressed the story, while simultaneously leaving enough of a mark on the world to feel like the world is changing an evolving?

For me the original invasion of Southsun Cove was the best example of this, it had a lot of “story” style content that made sense to happen and then go away, and also left a lot of permanent experiences as a result of that storyline.

I also felt like the story content that came along with the Queens Jubilee and Clockwork Chaos did a good job of accomplishing this as well, though the outcome of the invasions don’t have enough impact on the world.

Another food for thought: Back when we invaded Southsun, we did a lot of “one time” events with the story content. Folks complained that one time wasn’t fair because they would miss it, so we extended the “story” style content so you now have 2-4 weeks to experience it. Does having it around this long take away from the sense of story progression, and make it feel like it should be permanent when it’s taken away? Or would simply having (using the TV analogy) something like TiVo that allows you to see the story you missed balance out this issue?

#1439 - Nov. 5, 2013, 1:36 p.m.

cesmode.4257:

ColinJohanson.2394:

I think this raises an interesting question, what do you consider to be “temporary” content, and what qualifies (in your mind) as content that occurs and drives the living story forward it makes sense to have go away, vs. that which remains?

Hi Colin,
I wanted to quickly respond to this, then I will read the rest of your post. Have you guys considered using phasing? Keep the content in the game for everyone and use phasing to phase the world into the different changes that the Living Story dictates.

For people that are playing alts, if they have unlocked the last, or most current phase, of the Living Story with a previous character, they have a choice to kick off the LS from the beginning or at the current point in the story.

Are there technical difficulties to this to wihch GW2 and Phasing don’t mix? This would seem to solve your problem of content that should be temporary and content that could stay. It would also fix the problems that are in the game, such as undead in Orr still chanting Zhaitans name when he has been defeated by many.

Thoughts?

Our take on phasing, and why we never did it to begin with is: the world isn’t progressing, it’s just fake progressing for you and the person next to you isn’t seeing it progress simultaneously. One of the biggest things we wanted to accomplish with Gw2 is that the things that happen do matter, they happen for everyone, and everyone experiences them together. This is really putting the social aspect of the game and immersion, above the personal aspect.

That doesn’t make phasing wrong, but if you judge by the above pillar it makes phasing wrong for Gw2. Each design decision we make takes that into account as one of the games core pillars. When something in the open world happens, it needs to happen for everyone, and we gauge everything that way.

Edited to add: This specifically applies to experiences in the open world, and doesn’t mean we couldn’t do things like letting you see moments in time in the past, or experience living world instanced (or “phased”) moments on their own timeline.

#1443 - Nov. 5, 2013, 1:44 p.m.

Conner.4702:

To me none of the LV felt like it truly impacted the WORLD. Sure zones got changed, but the world stayed the same. Just look at the current LV there is a huge tower in the middle of a lake, but the humans and centaurs still have their petty land disputes..

So how would you try and solve this? And a second question is how far would you like to see the impact of say a tower in Kessex be felt content wise? The balance here is of course total volume of work for those involved, to literally have the entire world react to what’s going on would take us 6+ months to build, which at that point isn’t actually meeting our goals of a regularly changing and evolving world.

#1450 - Nov. 5, 2013, 1:58 p.m.

Septemptus.7164:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I wanted to say thanks again for being part of this initiative. Personally I think its going to be awesome, it is already impacting our day to day discussion so let’s keep it up!

Chris

I have a personal request. If you could even a little at the end of the thread could you write a bit more specific about what will change after reading this topic?

I think that its great what you wrote. You basically addressed all the main problems and let us know that you are aware of that, but I would really love to get some more informations.

For example: as for expanding the world, many me including wrote that we need new maps, so if you plan to address that let us know that new map will be planned to be released in 4 months or 6 month or something like that.

This would really keep me going and make me look forward to something cause now I very sadly have less and less reasons to log in and play in game after making 9 characters end exploring world so many times.

LW is a great idea but due of many disapointments it’s only kinda nice for me now.
I still give it a chance but its harder and harder when I feel like the wold is dying. I really look forward zone permanent changes and new maps for example.

Hi,

I will continue to summarize my thoughts as we move on and how we are evolving direction and design philosophy but i wont be able to give specifics, like this map is going to be built in x time frame as we can’t commit to this due to quality control and production times.

I will however try be more direct in terms of our actions. Also bear in mind that i don’t make an decisions in isolation. None of us do. Therefore evolutions in design philosophy will be communicated over time.

I hope this helps?

Chris

#1483 - Nov. 5, 2013, 3:41 p.m.

Nike.2631:

WANTED: PIONEERS!
“It’s a new frontier out there, your Majesty, and people are going to get hurt.”
- Logan Thakery

Join us as GuildWars 2 opens a new zone in a special one-time multi-week Living World event… That Everyone can participate in. Travel beyond the northern reaches of the Harathi Hinterlands to a new and untamed land waiting for the footsteps of heroes. The Lion Guard plans to seize the initiative, preparing new fortresses and new farmlands from which to base an army to one day strike against Jormag, the Elder Dragon of Ice.

OPENING THE WAY
The new zone begins as empty wilderness, with only a single cleared glade under player control. This is the first settlement in its infancy, and you must protect it. Each minute the builders are left in peace adds to the progress. Heroes will have to fend off all threats from simple animals attracted by the smell of food to angry Grawl defending their territory. Progress will be suspended until these threats are driven off as builders take shelter. When construction time adds up to one full week, the settlement will be firmly established – Permanently – and pioneers can press deeper into the region to the next promising site.

But beware, the sounds of hammers and the smells of family diners have not gone unnoticed. Local inhabitants and a forgotten colony of things best left undisturbed have begun to stir. As each town is completed, the resistance to the encroachment of civilization stiffens. Once tranquil woods become filled with flickering shadows, shadows that hunger for easy kills and a return to quieter times. The need for strong arms and steady hearts will not diminish as you press deeper into the wild. New dynamic events will be added throughout the campaign as the land responds to your presence.

In all, six towns, training camps, and fortresses are planned in this campaign against the Ice. Fill in the map, adding hubs of permanent commerce and trade with a variety of vendor and services. With each great milestone taking no less than a week, opening the new frontier to it’s permanent state will take over a month of dedication, giving each server a chance to compete against the others and display their round-the-clock commitment to opening the way and taking the fight north. Heroes can contribute to the Lion Guard’s initiative with more than just the strength of their sword arm. Scouts are needed to sweep ahead, while crafters and wealthy patrons are welcome – once per hour characters can turn over contributions of processed Lumber and Metal in Lion’s Arch and other major cities to advance the construction effort ‘clock’ by precious minutes, making up for time lost to threatening events. Rare, random daily major events will be announced world-wide, allowing defenders from all around Tyria to gather against dangers so great that if they are not beaten back the current progress clock can actually lose hours with buildings flattened and settlers slain.

As towns are added, veterans move forward behind the front lines and new hearts and skill point challenges become available. As scout reports are gathered new places of power and vistas are identified ahead of the advancing wave, calling explorers to the fore. Check with roving scouts to keep up on the current pace of the march to the north. Watch the map evolve before your eyes as your efforts to prepare for the next great assault on the Elder Dragons unfold! And when the final fortress is built, you can be certain that JORMAG HAS NOTICED. Help your server to be the first to unlock a new permanent Dragon Lieutenant Boss-Encounter as the Sprit of Black Ice answers this great challenge to his power.

MAKE YOUR MARK – FOREVER
As each hub is completed, the builders will erect a permanent Pioneer Marker recording and immortalizing the character names of the top 10 adventurers and the top 10 crafter/supporters who contributed to that town on that server. Every Marker is unique! Further, the permanent NPC population of the town at the end of the event will reflect the ratio of races among those 20 characters. Want to see the Charr tear off a piece of the new meat? Bring your Charr and place your clawmark on the land! Certain that only Asuran brilliance can ensure the safety of the new lands? Bring your Asura and show the bookahs how its done!

((Coming Soon to a game that makes new zones truly an epic experience))

This is exactly the kind of thing the Living World platform was designed to do and every evolution of it gets us one step closer. Kudos to your sir for taking the time to think about our direction and what the constraints of the platform are in its infancy and what it will be able to do moving forward.

I was going to snip your section so i could reply properly but i don’t want the context to remain, therefore….cont

#1484 - Nov. 5, 2013, 3:41 p.m.

Now before folks get excited in terms of this being a statement of attention, hold your horses! I am simply calling out that Nike has clearly displayed one of the directions we could go with the platform but more importantly he has proven out how Collaborative Development can work without having to be told exactly what we are working on now or in the future.

I can say however, that this is a direction we have discussed and that i have discussed in public before.

Chris

#1501 - Nov. 5, 2013, 5:23 p.m.

videoboy.4162:

Chris,

What do you and the other Devs think about the idea of having a static server that people are transported to for their personal story? People could play on their main server with all of their friends and participate in the LS, while still being able to complete the personal story as intended. It would also give you guys the freedom to change the world as you see fit, without being anchored down by the Personal Story.

The switch could be something simple like the NPC is the Mad King’s Labyrinth, where talking to him transports you to the Inquisition or Clocktower.

I think this is an interesting idea. Let’s flesh it out some more. Can you give me some more details around your idea?

Chris

#1502 - Nov. 5, 2013, 5:18 p.m.

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Now before folks get excited in terms of this being a statement of attention

It’s a statement of awareness. I’ll take it .

timmyf.1490:

CONFIRMED BY DEVS: NEW ZONE NORTH OF HARATHI HINTERLANDS COMING NOV 26 PATCH

Jerk. …But I did laugh really hard.

I just wanted to say WANTED: PIONEERS is mostly a riff on things said in this thread. I don’t have a working solution for players going out and launching settlements willy-nilly, but I think there are frameworks they could become invested in that would do the same thing narratively, but always ultimately resolving to a common, sustainable outcome.

While the event was running it would have to exist somewhat of a vacuum – while some servers might finish the march against Jormag in the strictest minimum time, others would have to be allowed up to maybe as many as 4 months to get there, and the zone really couldn’t be subject to further alterations until the catch up. Its a problem, but I think a small price to pay, and an opportunity to encourage guesting over out of goodwill to challenged servers.

While WANTED: PIONEERS! comes off as a slick 1-page advertisement, I have no illusions that it would represent anything less than a metric butt-ton of work across nearly every development department I can think of. It mostly draws on existing systems and existing assets, but stringing them together in the framework of a seven-stage campaign with only the final stage being kept as the permanent state of the zone… grueling. You’d kill months putting this thing together, and I mean month more than just building a zone in the traditional fashion must require.

One thing I will point out as a contrast to many things discussed so far: its incredibly light on rewards. No new gear. No cosmetic goodies. The reward it does offer though is one I think people would battle for passionately: PERMANENT RECOGNITION. While the Pioneer Markers as I first envisioned them would record the top 10 in two tracks of contribution, I think it would be amazing to have a second dialogue options when clicking on one that opens of a “Many thanks” page that lists maybe the top 1,000 participants – their efforts didn’t directly shape the town’s population, but they are still acknowledged for their play.

I also wanted to say I was a participant in the original big Southsun One-shot. I had a great time, even with the lag, the invisible beasties, and the occasional crash (thankfully mine were early so I got back in). But my roommate couldn’t make it that day – I have a pretty close up perspective of how unfortunately exclusive it was. This campaign is at its core that sort of event stretched out for an entire week, and then repeated with only minor variations FIVE MORE TIMES to give the best chance that the most extremely casual players still have a chance to at least look at a zone in flux, even if from a practical standpoint they were never in the running for a place on the top 10 lists.

In any event, thank you for reading . I thought it would be an entertaining extrapolation on a number of concepts put forward here.

It made my day.

Chris

#1502 - Nov. 5, 2013, 5:24 p.m.

This is something for sure i would love you guys to discuss but not something i can comment on i am afraid in terms of straight answer.

Chris

#1503 - Nov. 5, 2013, 5:28 p.m.

Just to give you all a heads up i am still thinking about Dominance and Darkness and reading through the best/worst event comments.

Some exciting problems/opportunities came up today that i have been working with the team and i lost my hour to respond unfortunately. On the plus side it has been an awesome day for the LW teams i think.

Chris

#1504 - Nov. 5, 2013, 5:29 p.m.

timmyf.1490:

Randulf.7614:

I still not sure why every content has to be 2 weeks though. It should last as long as it needs to progress the story.

Said another way…

We LOVE that you ADD content every two weeks.

We HATE that you often REMOVE roughly the same amount of content every two weeks.

Hi Timmyf,

We are working on more persistent content and meta goals that bridge said content.

Of to a meeting.

Chris

#1518 - Nov. 5, 2013, 6:09 p.m.

Shiren.9532:

Now I’ve made a kittenumption here, but doesn’t it make most sense that when planning out the Living Story a year in advance, the story dictates the content? I might have misunderstood, but if the story is to go to to Southsun or to Divinity’s Reach, shouldn’t it be because the story team said that’s the next place the story they wrote takes place? Designers can create dungeons, zerg events or rewards for any area in the game, forcing a story into content seems backwards to me.

It’s actually not as simple as that. The process for outlining a year’s worth of content involves working with a number of different teams to realize the story vision while also addressing the needs of the game. Story and gameplay need to work together, and sometimes that means doing what is best for the game as a whole and adjusting the story to make it work.

#1589 - Nov. 6, 2013, 10:19 a.m.

cesmode.4257:

Palador.2170:

Mungrul.9358:

THAT’S where all the bad blood surrounding that event comes from.
Simple greed.
And that’s the game’s fault. If it really were more about content than the reward, I’m sure feedback in general would be a lot more positive.

Ummm…no. That might be true for some people, maybe even a lot of people, but not for all people.

What upset me about the event is that I missed it, and couldn’t get a clear answer on just what the hell had happened during it. All I got (at the time, mind you) was a confused mess of answers that had me feeling very left out. Did I want the reward? Well, sure, but “missed reward” was hardly on my radar at the time. I wanted the story, I wanted to see what everyone else had seen. There’s always another chance at a reward from something else, but I was to NEVER get to be in that part of the story, and that sucked.

This is why we need a better mechanism to re-tell the story of missed LS events. I had suggested either in an in-game or out of game Lore Book that details not only the history of LS, but of Guild Wars as well. This will also help players who never played GW1 understand the original lore.

But this story telling can’t simply be one paragraph for each LS. I don’t want to see one paragraph introduce roxx during flame and frost and then explain what happened in a few short sentences within the paragraph. The explanation must be drawn out enough so that nothing is left to the imagination, other than trying to recreate the story in my mind from the words written by Arenanet.

Bobbystein, what do you think of this?

It’s a great idea that’s very similar to the ones that we’ve been discussing internally for months now. Here’s the catch: we’re limited in how much room we have to display text inside a UI element, unless we want to allow scrolling. Also, the more words we put in there the less likely most players will read it to the end, and the more expensive it will be to localize once we scale up the feature to include all Living World releases (and whatever other content we decide to reference with it). We have to find that sweet spot where players get the information they need while also conforming to our technical and budgetary constraints. That’s not always easy.

So while I think it’s entirely possible that we can implement such a feature we are limited in how much historical text we can display. But if players are able to “fill in the gaps” somehow, then I think they’ll get what they need out of it. I wish I could say more because I think our current designs are pretty exciting, but we’re just not ready to discuss them in detail just yet.

Regarding GW1 lore in the game, I think it’d be really compelling to have in-game books or some other delivery device to allow players to immerse themselves in Tyria’s history.

#1590 - Nov. 6, 2013, 10:21 a.m.

Einlanzer.1627:

Elbegast.6970:

For a Living World, we need:
Seasons
Better Weather Effects
Dark Nights (no, not Christian Bale)
Purchasable Real Estate
Player Owned Shops
Player Owned Farms (for Livestock and Produce)
Fishing, Hunting & Farming Professions
Player-Generated Dynamic Events

For a Living Story, we need:
An In-Game Calendar that lists recurring festival events and distinguishes them apart from the Living Story releases.
Shorter story arcs, more zone-by-zone storytelling and less focus on larger player-funneling zerg events.

I’m a fan of this post. This can all happen in conjunction with larger lore/world updates that are merged with the Personal Story and focused on expanding the world with new content rather than changing or disrupting it through alterations to existing content.

Yeah, these are some interesting ideas.

#1624 - Nov. 6, 2013, 1:33 p.m.

khani.4786:

Nike.2631:

Colin / Chris / Powers that Be,

At the beginning of this thread, some thirty pages ago (my how time flies), there was a list of rules laid out to provide a framework for our discussion and to guide our expectations.

I would like to see an additional rule added~

7: So long as it serves to advance mature discussion or illustrate a creative point, the usual forum restrictions on the use of complex formatting will be suspended. This is a privilege. Do not squander it.

At its heart, this thread and the other Collaborative Discussions are about the philosophies and processes that underlie making art. For us as posters to contribute, one of our most powerful tools is to make art and use it as a demonstration of the philosophies and process we try to highlight and share.

I am a writer. I paint with words. But I also paint with rhythm, with inflection, with the visual appearance of those words on the page. This forum is equipped with POWERFUL TOOLS that help me keep one of my 1,000+ word proposals from dissolving into a monolithic unreadable wall of blah, blah, blah.

I have had one of my posts redacted (since reinstated) and my account infracted (still true) for wanting to give the best, most engaging, and most enlivening presentation of my thoughts that I could. My offense: knowing how to make a title line look better when leading into a massive proposal. My crime was using paint when talking about painting.

Please extend us a little latitude as we go forward together. You won’t be sorry you did.

Thank you

I would like to add my voice to this as I also had a post deleted and was infracted for trying to format my post to make it easier to read. I have a very hard time reading a wall of text and find that when I have a large amount to say it is easier for me to create headings and use the formatting tools available to create a clear message.

As for what I had to say, I guess that my voice won’t be heard anymore in this thread. I’ll continue to read what others say, I just feel very trodden upon about this whole thing.

Please keep to the options provided on the website for formatting. Note i have taken your suggestions on board regarding formatting and will discuss with the appropriate folks.

Chris

#1645 - Nov. 6, 2013, 4:39 p.m.

Sorry for not having to much time to post today. I have some free time over the next few days and will catch up. This said i haven’t really seen any pressing questions for me and am currently enjoying reading the discussion you are having among yourselves and with Colin and Bobby.

Chris

#1649 - Nov. 6, 2013, 5:31 p.m.

DarksunG.9537:

BobbyStein.2315:

If some folks “won’t listen or care about anything related to her” then they’ve already made up their minds. For the rest of the people playing the game, I would imagine that they’re curious as to where her story is going because we haven’t revealed as much as people have wanted. The truth of the matter is that we’ve been planning an epic conclusion to Scarlet’s story for a while now. I really wish I could say more but that would spoil what’s to come.

That seems a bit unfair. It’s like saying “the devs won’t listen & just drop her for something better because they’ve already decided she’s a good character”. I think many people won’t pay attention to her story because it’s been annoying so far. That’s not unfair. A story needs to earn the viewers attention & investment. I think most people will see what the story brings & accept it for good or bad. But I think that it’s extremely unfair to pre-lable people who are probably going to find her just as stupid as they do now. So far, every time you’ve explain more, it’s actually made her character more painful.

I feel like it’s a matter of quit-while-you’re-ahead. I’m surprised that the team quit adding DEs because there “wasn’t much fanfare” but when a character is so despised out of annoyance, lore-breaking ,meh visual design & wierdness, the team just sticks with her. I don’t get it.

I think I can sum up a lot of the fears of the future of Scarlet by saying: If you explain to me in harrowing detail why a character is annoying & groan-worthy, in the end they will still be annoying & groan-worthy. I’m not sure how that is a non-valid viewpoint.

It’s more a matter of finishing what we started, implementing what we’ve already designed, and setting the game up for the next arc. I think it’s best that we try and give this story a satisfying conclusion rather than abandon it because some people aren’t fans of the villain.

I want to make it clear, though, that I’m not ignoring the opinions of people who don’t like elements of this Living World story. Folks such as yourself have made it pretty clear why you don’t like it. You just have to understand that catering to every taste and dropping everything that’s currently in progress in favor of a new idea just isn’t practical. But we can take that feedback, discuss it along with the rest of the lessons we’ve learned over the past year, and take it into consideration as we plan future releases.

#1702 - Nov. 7, 2013, 1:16 p.m.

Conncept.7638:

BobbyStein.2315:

It’s more a matter of finishing what we started, implementing what we’ve already designed, and setting the game up for the next arc…

Why couldn’t the design team have this attitude when they attempted and failed to expand on the event system? I swear it seems like they barely even tried…

Hi Conncept,

Can you provide some more details please in order to add more value to the discussion. Can you explain what you mean by attempted and failed to expand on the event system? Where do you think we failed and what do you see as success?

Chris

#1703 - Nov. 7, 2013, 1:19 p.m.

Julischka Bean.7491:

Hello all.
I am sick with a bad head cold and can’t seem to be be able to put words together because of it, but, after reading this thread, I feel I don’t have to as everyone has done a beautiful job.

Speaking for myself, I am enjoying the frequent content. On my wishlist is more missions that can be done solo. Waypointing into Kessex and finding myself in a mission was a very wonderful experience. I am a reader. I love lore. I like taking my time and seeing all there is to see.

One thing I do not want to see more of in future Living Stories, or any mission in GuildWars2 for that matter is locking important things (Like Voting) behind Jumping puzzles. I am a clutz. I have real problems getting to some Vistas. Locking shinies behind Jumping Puzzles is ok, but important things, like voting, is not.

Anyways, I look forward to seeing what this talented bunch of Devs have in store for us

Lisa-Stumbling back to bed clutching a hot water bottle.

Aww get well soon and thanks for the feedback. Really we need to make sure we don’t gate progress of Living World behind content like Jumping Puzzles unless the jumping puzzle is the core focus of the event.

Chris

#1723 - Nov. 7, 2013, 4:47 p.m.

Conncept.7638:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Conncept.7638:

BobbyStein.2315:

It’s more a matter of finishing what we started, implementing what we’ve already designed, and setting the game up for the next arc…

Why couldn’t the design team have this attitude when they attempted and failed to expand on the event system? I swear it seems like they barely even tried…

Hi Conncept,

Can you provide some more details please in order to add more value to the discussion. Can you explain what you mean by attempted and failed to expand on the event system? Where do you think we failed and what do you see as success?

Chris

Sure. A short time in to the games release, before the LS, the developers stated that they wished to spend development time and resources expanding on the existing ‘core’ event system over the whole game world, everybody loved the idea and I haven’t seen players so excited since. Note that when it was announced existing events was the wording used.

Cue the Modus Secleris events. While they did have some interesting combat mechanics they didn’t scale properly, and had no story; but more importantly they (and whatever events were implemented with them, players still don’t know what those 60 events were) couldn’t be found by any method except scouring the entire bleeding world, and none were in any way related to the existing event, stories, characters, and areas we loved and were hoping to see expanded. They were just… there… they could have been placed anywhere in the world without actually feeling like they were part of the world.

In short, the design team completely botched it. What was implemented was not what players wanted or had in mind when they asked for expansion on the DE system.

And then seemingly without any feedback whatsoever, from which they may have concluded that these events failed for reasons that could be easily addressed in even a single subsequent attempt, the expanding of the event system just seemed to piddle off as southsun came and went, hard-stopped for the holidays, and a few months later the LS started with its temporary content and side-story rather than the expansion of the core content and existing stories I believe most players hoped for.

What I believe players wanted can be summed up as: Expansions on the existing stories and event mechanics already within the world, to the end that these stories feel more alive, expanding outward based on more advanced event mechanics, more story steps, leading to more varied story steps, player choice, and player success or failure. That expansion can come by way of the LS updates, or just retcons of new content into existing areas.

I don’t want to see a giant tower out of nowhere on the front lines of the war with the centaurs nearly as much as I would like to actually see the story of the war with the centaurs. I don’t want to see the dredge and flame legions ‘powers combined’ as much as I would like to see the stories which the flame legion and the dredge are already a part of continued. Tyria already felt like a living world on release, those feelings just needed to be continued, but were instead diverged away from, and in some cases wholly ignored.

(Sorry I’m saying ‘them’ as if you aren’t part of the conversation but I have no idea if you were a part of the team of developers at the time or not)

Thanks for the info. I will have a think.

Chris

#1735 - Nov. 7, 2013, 5:54 p.m.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I think where the failure is lies in the rewards. You don’t get nowhere near enough rewards for doing DEs compared to other things, because karma is not very useful. Also, doing something extremely short and simple like killing a champion gives the same if not more rewards than a long DE like escorting someone, so no one does the escorts.

We agree, this is something we’ve been discussing a lot lately and working on some various answers for, but I’m curious:

What rewards would you like to see from rewards? Would they be different when you’re leveling up than when you’re level 80? What would motivate you to want to go around the world playing as many different events as possible, rather than the same 4-5 over and over again?

Some of the fun challenges we are currently solving, but it’s great to hear peoples thoughts on this subject as well.

#1737 - Nov. 7, 2013, 6:03 p.m.

daros.3407:

Hello,

i have one question. This thread was supposed to be closed 3 days ago if i am right.

Chris decided to extend the deadline to allow more people to add to this particular discussion. If anyone has more to say on this topic, please post your comments.

#1750 - Nov. 7, 2013, 6:33 p.m.

We will be stickying this thread on Monday 11th Nov.

I feel it has been a great start to the CDI and will be adding some more comments and thoughts between now and then. We will then be opening up a new thread which will be discussing what we think has gone well and not so well (such as available time on my part) with the process and practices of the first phase of the initiative.

Following this i will post our actions in terms of evolving the CDI and we will move onto the next topics to discuss.

Thanks all,

Chris

#1825 - Nov. 8, 2013, 11:32 a.m.

Einlanzer.1627:

In particular, more attention needs to be given to the conundrum of the conflict that exists between the PS and LW. Reconciling those two on a conceptual level should be the top priority of this conversation, IMO. I feel like most people actually prefer the former over the latter, but regardless of which one Anet chooses to roll with, something needs to be done so that the disjoint between the two isn’t controlling the evolution of the world and the lore going forward.

This is something that we’ve been discussing extensively. We’ll share more details when we’re able.

#1828 - Nov. 8, 2013, 11:36 a.m.

Fozzik.1742:

You went from a system with branches, success/failure states, localized stories and depth, and noticeable effects (even if temporary) on the surrounding areas that were somewhat controllable by the actions of players…to a system where you add 1-off semi-random events that have no story and just pop and disappear in the same fixed locations (sounds like Rift, instead of GW2).

Things happening by the direction of the developers (like plopping a big ugly tower in one of the prettiest areas of the game, having us run a dungeon, then making it disappear) is not the same as allowing things to change based on player interaction with the story/world. It just feels forced and artificial. We know each living story release is predetermined and the story just plays out. The TV analogy may be a little too apt…we’re watching stories now instead of taking part in them and to some extent directing their outcome.

I really loved the way the stories played out around you with certain DE chains, especially in some of the early maps. I loved the way a player could see different outcomes and discover new story through their actions. I like the story instances included with some living story releases…the ones that actually have the story play out through actions and dialogue and involve the player…but again, it’s no longer in any way alterable by ME. Also, those story instances are seemingly a very small part of the recent releases. Most of what we get is the other stuff…the random event spawns and loot farms we run around in a circle.

I would not mind at all if the pace of releases slowed, and we saw the original promise of GW2 better realized through expansion of the DE system and the explorable world…more maps with hearts, DEs, vistas, jumping puzzles, the whole fairy tale. More branches and story and depth to existing DEs… and a system to track DEs and their completion so we can experience it all. Give us reasons to wander and explore and take our time…to experience the story at our own pace, not some arbitrary schedule.

Continue our personal story… bring back a character or two thought dead. Let us push on to new challenges. Give us some continuity that feels personal and keeps us going.

So you’d like the game to react to you on a more personal level, such that people, places, etc. respond differently depending on your accomplishments, decisions, and so on?

#1860 - Nov. 8, 2013, 2:14 p.m.

Shinzan.2908:

I’m more convinced turning to a traditional content release concept rather doing this episodic thing would be better for GW2. The instances with Roxx and Braham, Scarlet’s playhouse etc could have been triggered after one finishes their living story as the next chapters so people can do them at their own pace and experience a personalized story. Doing it that way would allow for things like recognition from NPC’s or slight alterations based on our characters past choices.

Meanwhile the Molten Facility or Aetherblade retreat would have been better as new permanent dungeons, with explorable paths as well as their own rewards and armor.

In my opinion a game just shouldn’t try be a TV show.

I’m not sure the two need to be mutually exclusive. What if every X amount of time that seemed reasonable, the story simply kept being expanded in the way you’re discussing rather than be released in one big chunk?

But if you’re not up to that point in the story arc, you can play it when ever you get there.

#1987 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:03 p.m.

I wanted to say a HUGE thank you to both the community and the press for the great support surrounding the CDI. I am so pleased to see how effective it has been in what is only the first phase of the project.

Tonight the threads will be stickied and sometime later in the week i will put up our phase 2 thread which will center on how to improve the process (such as the devs having more time to join in the discussion and topics that are a little more focused). Once we have agreed on ways to improve we will move to phase three which will be our second call for topics.

In my next post i will do a brief summary of our discussion.

Chris

#1988 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:07 p.m.

Summary:

Note this is copied and pasted from earlier in the discussion (-:

Part 1

Hi All,

First of thanks for attacking the initiative in the spirit it was laid out. The contribution thus far has been passionate, insightful and very valuable. Much of your commentary and discussions have already been raised in meetings and impacted our thought process around development moving forward already.

As laid out by the rules I will not go into specifics about future development, this said however it is very encouraging to see that much of what has been discussed matches our plans. This fact for many will not come as a revelation as it is clear to see the impact our community has already had on the game since we launched.
So I wanted to share my thoughts with you around the key discussion points (note: Story is something that I will touch upon and that Bobby will continue to discuss in greater detail)

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset. However the points raised around achievements being too time consuming is something that I do acknowledge and something we have already taken steps to address both in terms of overall time to complete and the nature of the repetitive achievements. We will continue to make strides in this area and are aware that the current time requirement also cuts in to the player’s ability to achieve goals in other aspects of the game.

#1989 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:07 p.m.

Part 2

Regarding rewards relating to the Living World content I agree that we should make greater effort to ensure that time investment is matched by the reward. We have to be careful in this regard due to constraints surrounding our economy but we have already discussed many ways of meeting this goal and maintaining the integrity of the economy. Regarding Living World Meta Achievement rewards, personally I would like to see more rewards that commemorate the accomplishments of my character and my friends, specifically pertaining to the challenges I overcame (Essentially a rite of passage I can show of). Different types of reward take different amounts of time to make and we have been working to organize our reward distribution better so player’s will see more variety moving forward. I also really like the idea of Arc based Meta Achievements.

Many of the community raised the story arc becoming fragmented due to non-related content being released in between events. Again this is something we are aware of and are in agreement with the community on. On top of this we would like to see more incremental attachment to the players in terms of story and how it relates to them through gameplay. This point was raised early on in the thread and is core to making the Living World initiative a success. Personally I feel we have improved Story and Gameplay synergy but certainly we are not where we want to be yet. As we build on the Living World platform in terms of refinement of systems and potentially new technologies it is not hard to see just how much potential the platform has and what can be done with it.

I also agree with the notion of less temporary content where it makes sense to do so. I think that an evolving world by its very nature requires ‘A time in space’ of contextual exposition but this shouldn’t be the bulk of the content. The notion of the Living World and Story Arcs centering around meaningful evolution to the geography of Tyria, the player’s role within the events and their tangible impact on the future of Tyria as an evolving world are key to our direction moving forward. The platform we have built is still in its infancy but I would hope the evolution toward this goal is becoming more and more apparent. We have been working toward more permanent content and will continue to do so.

#1990 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:08 p.m.

Part 3
Many of you raised the idea of tying the Living World more deeply into the world of Tyria and also as a deployment tool for enhancing the core of the game. Over the past year we have made many improvements to the core of the game, as part of the releases but not folded into them per se. This is a really interesting idea what we should continue to discuss in this thread and that will be a topic of discussion in the studio. Regarding drilling more into the existing content with Living World is something we have done, are doing now and will continue to evolve moving forward. Related to this many of you talked about making the changes more meaningful to the player’s life within Tyria, all I can say to this is Heck Yeah! This is at the core of what we intend to deliver with the Living World and whilst we have done some work in this area, we are not at a stage yet where we would say that this paradigm is fully functional yet. To create meaningful changes they must impact the day to day of the player and this is at the center of our design philosophy for execution in this area.
As mentioned earlier, we are still building the Living World platform and this is why the Collaborative Development plan exists because discussion of this type is key to course correction and evolution in how the platform is built.
A number of you mentioned consequences for failure. This is something we discuss a lot and is quite complex. I would ask that we continue to discuss this topic in the thread.
With this in mind I also want us to be delivering epic adventures, where we forge the future of Tyria and fight mighty foes. And whilst Bobby has and will continue to discuss the intricacies of this, I want you all to understand that this is very much part of the plan.
Another big topic that was raised was Quality of releases. The work we are doing is new to all of us and therefore we are constantly finding opportunities to improve and course correct in a live environment. This relates not only to bugs, but the understanding of the types of content our community enjoys and how much time you all have to play the content. I believe the quality of our releases are improving and will continue to do so as we hone in our own internal development practices and have a better understanding of how the Living World is performing in the live environment.
Regarding accessibility of releases some great points were brought up ranging from ideas such as a scrying pool or Hall of Memories to get caught up on previous releases. We are very aware of the problems presented by having an ongoing arc and this particular area is an ongoing topic of discussion. Regarding achievements as a method of directing player’s to content, we also agree that there are better ways to do this and you will see with the latest release some innovations in this area.
The Zerg! This is an interesting problem that we had actually fixed to an extent in an earlier release where we created a meta goal that forced players to split up into groups. I really enjoyed this and the feedback was excellent. Personally I quite enjoy the zerg sometimes in PVE ( I tend to be less of a ‘zerger’ in WvW) but I also really enjoy group play in the open world as many of you have mentioned. I would love to see more of this in the open world.
Some of you posted about your favorite releases and least favorite. It would be really cool if you have the time to post your single favorite and least favorite and the reasons why for each. This would help a lot and I will share my learning with you etc. from the posts.
I am running out of time sadly but I did want to make sure that I entered the discussion. I hope the comments have made shed some new light on our approach and thoughts and I am looking forward to enter into proper discussion now. I probably haven’t covered all the areas but no doubt you will raise any I missed (-:
I wanted to say thanks again for being part of this initiative. Personally I think its going to be awesome, it is already impacting our day to day discussion so let’s keep it up!

#1992 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:13 p.m.

Part 4 (This is not copied and pasted)

You guys raised an assumption that we care more about quantity than quality. I clarified perhaps some poor communication on my part that was if we get to the stage where we feel that we aren’t able to meet our quality bar through our current cadence then we will revisit the timing of our releases but that i believe there is still a lot we can improve in best working practices and development inefficiencies before we get to that point.

Many of you commented on some great ideas around event failure, Nike, myself and many others gave examples of this around TQ, Darkness and Dominance. We have internally already been thinking about how we would do with our own Jon P leading the charge in this area. Your support and collaboration has boosted our progress and we will update as move forward.

The Scarlet arc exposition has been to slow and we agree with this. We also know how much you all want to see more of our old lore built upon and we agree. I am looking forward to hearing your feedback around Scarlet once the arc ends.

Continued…

#1995 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:23 p.m.

Part 5

You also put forward which Events you liked and didn’t like and this is something we will be having a meeting on internally to discuss and drill deeper into.

Colin discussed the TV show paradigm with you. You correctly raised the importance of the real world paradigm have a system that allows the user to watch old episodes etc. This is very important and something we have and are currently discussing. I hope we can do a topic just on this paradigm at some point.

You raised how you felt that the current arc writing can be a little immature and i agree. Watch this space!

We loved Nike’s and your pioneer brainstorm. And i pointed out that i can’t talk about it which by its very nature should point toward some very exciting theory crafting (-:

We discussed rewards for Living World events and we all agreed that they are somewhat lacking and we have already set into motion changes in this area that you should see early next year!

Continued…

#2000 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:37 p.m.

Timmy F, Cesmode and many others discussed the highs and lows of zerging in the open world. I mentioned that this is something we are actively working on and whilst not perfect we can see progress sin this area in the Clock Work Chaos and TQ. More evolution to come!

Content direction through achievements was raised as something that can be improved greatly. Again this is something can’t comment on currently but what i can say is that we agree that content direction is better served outside of the achievement system.

Einlanzer, Pifil, others and Colin had a long discussion about phasing where Colin laid out his thoughts and reasoning around our thoughts on phasing. Colin pointed out that phasing can’t really live within the environment of our pillars but that the conversation has been useful and that phasing certainly has its place in other types of games.

Seraph and Asuka had some awesome ideas relating to global token rewards from events that allowed users to receive items from across all of our current global reward paradigm unifying our currency in this area.

I have no doubt missed a few key areas so please forgive me and feel free to add any summaries that i have missed.

I would like to thank you all once again for all your hard work in this discussion. It has been a lot of fun and a great start. I look forward to seeing what the CDI looks like a year from now and how it has affected the game. I hope now everyone can see how this initiative will impact the game and how this is truly development.

I can’t wait for the next topic discussion and here’s to Collaborative Development, Tyria and ArenaNet’s community!

Chris

#2002 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:43 p.m.

Sligh.2789:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So we done everyone nearly every part of this discussion has been represented in meetings in the office! In my next post i will do a brief summary of our discussion.

Chris

I have posted about the communications that your company puts forth to the community needing to be proofed by an expert in communications. Please hire a communications director to help you.

Hi Sligh,

Sorry, i am doing my proof read now. Thanks for raising this and helping me with it.

Chris

#2003 - Nov. 11, 2013, 1:47 p.m.

P.S: I can’t wait for tomorrows event! There is going to be much pain, suffering and glory!

Chris

#2005 - Nov. 11, 2013, 2 p.m.

Shinzan.2908:

I think it’s great you guys are doing this, hope you’ll be engaging with the community in the future as well.

I also think GW2 is a great game with a lot of potential, and you folks are getting better with each new release. Hearing that we are on the same page about a lot of the issues makes me positive that this trend will continue.

So kudos, keep up the good work.

Thanks Shinzan i agree. The CDI is ongoing and i would expect the next call for topics to be in 1 to 2 weeks.

Chris

#2009 - Nov. 11, 2013, 2:10 p.m.

Guhracie.3419:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Shinzan.2908:

I think it’s great you guys are doing this, hope you’ll be engaging with the community in the future as well.

I also think GW2 is a great game with a lot of potential, and you folks are getting better with each new release. Hearing that we are on the same page about a lot of the issues makes me positive that this trend will continue.

So kudos, keep up the good work.

Thanks Shinzan i agree. The CDI is ongoing and i would expect the next call for topics to be in 1 to 2 weeks.

Chris

You’re not going to use the original call for topics each time? Why not just rank everything and go down that list instead of wasting a week to gather and calculate?

We can discuss this in the CDI evolution topic which will go up soon. Our feeling was that the communities top topics will change from one week to another, hence doing another call for topics. We can decide in the next phase that will likely be posted at the end of this week.

Good point!

Chris

#2014 - Nov. 11, 2013, 3:55 p.m.

Half Tooth.1867:

My experience of the LS can be summed up with: Everything feels random and meaningless. Events and villains come out of nowhere and then vanish into the ether. You don’t get time to get to know a character before they turn up so I literally don’t care about them, their life or their story.
They don’t linger either after the update so I feel no inclination to involve myself emotionally with the LS.

Part of the reason we’ve been including Scarlet in multiple releases is so we can build on her character. It’s kind of funny that we routinely get two types of feedback on the Living World story. From some people it’s, “Stuff feels random. I don’t know these characters.” From others it’s, “Stop using X character. I don’t like them.” So we’re presented with two competing bits of feedback (usually from different people but it’s hard to track opinions on a forum).

I do think we can do a better job at connecting the releases by having some characters stick around who have conversations, scenes, and maybe some tasks on them, kind of like what we’re trying with Marjory and Kasmeer at the camp this month. It’s something that we’ve been working to improve lately. Part of the issue here is that content that bleeds from one release to another doesn’t automatically have an “owner” in terms of which team builds it and/or maintains due to where it falls in the build schedule. That stated, Steven Waller, Angel, and I have been working with folks to bridge releases with this sort of lore-building stuff.

Expect more of that in the next few releases, and by all means I would encourage you and others to let us know how you feel about it.

#2029 - Nov. 11, 2013, 5:20 p.m.

Ohoni.6057:

Part of the reason we’ve been including Scarlet in multiple releases is so we can build on her character. It’s kind of funny that we routinely get two types of feedback on the Living World story. From some people it’s, “Stuff feels random. I don’t know these characters.” From others it’s, “Stop using X character. I don’t like them.” So we’re presented with two competing bits of feedback (usually from different people but it’s hard to track opinions on a forum).

It’s not actually conflicting advice. It’s saying, in summation, “stop using characters we don’t like, but continue using characters that we do to tell a cohesive story.” I don’t personally have a problem with Scarlet, but it is tough to consider her a worthy character to build a year of stories around, at least as she’s been presented.

Understood. Thanks for clarifying.

#2040 - Nov. 11, 2013, 6:36 p.m.

Jamais vu.5284:

All I can really say is that you, ANet, shouldn’t be afraid to introduce new areas because of a potential pop spreading.
The fact is that most areas are already fairly deserted. If you add a new one, you should not fear to delete or physically merge an old region.
And let’s be real, the current areas are rather boring from both a gameplay standpoint (event chains that are just defeat X waves and don’t matter, and yes, lack of actual quests) and from a graphical point of view (lack of biomes other than jungle, mountains and temperate woods; enemies extremely samey. You fight Skelk or Flame Legion or Earth Elementals from Level 2 to 78, for example).

You might also rethink the philosophy that maps should be homogenous difficulty wise (and the general philosophy that overworld = casual, dungeons = hardcore, the latter of which didn’t materialize). Why not a corner of a map, or a whole zone even, that is exceedingly difficult, with mobs 5 or more levels above you? Things like that enhance the thrill of exploration. It keeps you on your toes.
Everyone is always talking about UW or FoW when they mean that, but no need to look at those dedicated raids for an example. I got the same feeling from fighting through the insanely strong overworld-mobs in the Realm of Torment in Nightfall. Or the War of Kryta, remember? It was awesome.
Actually, what is probably the most talked about piece of overworld content (outside Orr)? The Fort full of level 80 mobs in Brisban Wildlands. Do something with that.

Last but not least, I do hope you will add Cantha and eventually Elona. You should push to open up one big new region per year. 2014 perhaps we’d get the Isle of Janthir and Northern Shiverpeaks, 2015 maybe Cantha, 2016 Elona and the Crystal Desert, etc.
If you do that, one map at a time would be horrible horrible horrible. Please listen to that.
Take your time. Do batches of subregions at a time. They have to “flow” into each other, to harmonize. People don’t want a hundred bread sticks, they want one big roast beef. That doesn’t stop you from continuing your bi-weekly Living Story events within those sub-regions.

Despite my late reply, I hope it still is given some thought to.

Hi Jamais Vu,

Your points are definitely being thought about thanks for posting.

Chris

#2073 - Nov. 12, 2013, 11:21 a.m.

KitOnlyHuman.6807:

You’re forgetting the people who truly love the unique characters in the living story and are on the edge of their seat with anticipation to see what happens next with them! =)

Glad you’re enjoying it. I do realize that there are a variety of opinions in the community, including some that think we’re doing just fine. That stated, I know we can do better in terms of story, characterization, presentation, and focus.

I think my team has come a long way in the past year. We were tasked with doing something that we as a company had never attempted, and we did it with limited means and tight schedules. We’ve learned a lot in 12 months, and I’d like to use that knowledge along with the constructive comments from our players to steadily improve our stories. Some of that will come through technical improvements and revised game systems. The rest will have to come from us through more focused presentation and better collaboration with our peers in design, art, programming, and audio.

And, hey, thanks for the kind words.

#2074 - Nov. 12, 2013, 11:25 a.m.

mercury ranique.2170:

Just wanted to add, besides a huge thankyou for this approach that there are some out there that do identify themself with the villian (know who she is) and do like that character. Although I’m a minority, I have expressed both my personal thoughts as well as trying to compromise with the other (bigger groups). But hope you don’t forget that some actually like Scarlet. Specially cause, many times, the people who like things often dont take time to express that on a forum (not saying that the complaints here arent valuable, as well).

Thanks for the kind words.

#2075 - Nov. 12, 2013, 11:29 a.m.

Direksone.3867:

My comments about the Living Story.

I totally understand what ANet is trying to accomplish: create a living world. To some extend it does happen. My ‘issue’ is with the story we have been presented. The story has gotten better and better over the course of the year, Scarlet is a decent villain, but not every time was the story written properly. This is no new feedback however. Personally I think having story arcs like this are fine from time to time, but I personally would like to see new regions be added and the current story continued. There’s so much to work with: the Norn and their quest to reclaim their homeland and defeat Jormag and the Sons of Svanir. The Charr and their ongoing battle with both the Flame Legion and the Ghosts of Ascalon, also a bit of a political drama going on. The cleansing of Orr?

There’s a lot of existing lore to work with and expand upon and I personally would like to see that happen, perhaps with some filler arcs here and there like Scarlet.

When you say, “current story continued” do you mean “extend your personal story” or something else?

#2076 - Nov. 12, 2013, 11:38 a.m.

Sondergaard.8469:

Firstly, the audience, or in this case, the player needs a character, or a group of characters they can relate to and develop a personal bond with. This is usually done in novels through a series of introductory events that showcase the main characters and their personalities. This helps the reader to develop a much more intimate understanding of the people involved in this story. The same is true with movies. With games you get the best of both worlds. You have the ability to access the meta information that novels provide, while showing a visual story as movies provide.

Personal story and dynamic events are a great way to introduce and build on characters so the players can develop a deeper connection to the storyline and the events happening in the world. There’s a very strong disconnect from the characters and the players though. When I log in and I see the next part of this story, my first thought is, “Who is this, and why should I care?” That shouldn’t be the case if proper story telling mechanics are implemented.

Flame & Frost introduced Rox and Braham in March. We’ve reused them throughout the year (April, August, October, etc.). I guess what I’m saying is that we’re doing this, but if you’ve missed some releases then I completely understand why you may not know them well.

Sondergaard.8469:

Secondly, the voice actors you have are great with a lot of potential, however their written dialog needs a lot of work. Written dialog versus spoken dialog are two different animals. You need to write their scripts in a way that feels natural when spoken. I don’t talk the way I write and that is true for a lot of people in the world. Keep that in mind. More natural dialog will help a lot in allowing players to form a bond with the characters. If the dialog delivered doesn’t come in a manner that feels fluid like someone standing in the room having a normal, believable conversation, you’ll see an increased experience of disconnect from the story. A great way to rehearse this and practice this is simply to read the lines out loud to fellow team members and ask yourself, “Did it feel natural to read that? Was that something I would say in a normal conversation if I were in this situation?”

Can you provide an example where you felt a dialog exchange between two or more characters in the Living World story sounded forced, was written too formally, or the performance didn’t fit the situation? We strive for natural sounding dialog (in an unnatural world) and we hold table reads in advance of every recording session, so we have the process you’re describing already in place. Granted, dialog is often subjective and what sounds natural to you doesn’t to me and vice versa.

#2078 - Nov. 12, 2013, 11:56 a.m.

smitske.4912:

I think what he means is, something I pointed out before too, that he does not understand why you decided to make a completely new villain and a story that for the most part is completely unrelated with the story we get throughout the game. This while there are so many stories on which you could have build on to that are already in the game. For example Kodan reclaiming their lands, tengu seeing the need to open up and combine powers with the current races to fight the evils, still many dragon bosses to defeat. Zhaitan may have fallen, but he other ones don’t seem to do anything at all.

Dragons being one of the big enemies but there are also smaller ones, like the corruption and battle for power between different groups that we often see in the first part of the personal stories, why doesn’t anything seem to happen there?

Reuses of Braham and Roxx is nice, but often I feel like they are just put in so that people recognize them but they play no real role, they have no real connection with the story they just happen to show up. I mean we can see them with the current one where they replace one of the vigil/whispers agents at the destroy the spore events, but they have no real use there. They seem to be just dragged in out of nowhere and that is just silly.

The biggest reason why we introduced new characters for Living World story content was because we weren’t able to separate the Personal Story and Living World timelines and characters. So while we could have used iconics or existing characters more liberally in the Living World releases, we couldn’t put them through any meaningful changes because it could potentially break continuity elsewhere.

If you create a character that has no dependencies to existing content then you have a lot fewer restrictions in how you use them. The good news is that we’re taking steps to address this very concern and we’ll be sharing more details on our solution in the coming months.

#2108 - Nov. 13, 2013, 10:51 a.m.

I received a PM from someone this morning. Rather than reply directly I decided to share my response with the community for transparency.

“Why do you never respond to negative feedback about Scarlet? I’ve seen you reply to people who like Scarlet, but almost never to people who dislike her. Why the bias?”

Here’s a tip: Devs are much more likely to engage in discussion when the tone isn’t overwhelmingly negative and hostile. I have to devote what little time I have for forum review to a couple of threads, and lately that’s been the Collaborative Development one. Please post here and keep it constructive and in the spirit of discussion. Also, please understand that none of us can reply to every post. Just because we haven’t responded to your specific question does not mean that we haven’t read your feedback or are discussing it internally.

We can see from a user’s post history if they’re routinely complaining about the same things in a multitude of threads and often taking a sarcastic tone. That’s useless feedback that more often annoys devs to the point that they won’t take you seriously. You want to be heard? Keep the delivery constructive and civil. It’s pretty simple.

I’m totally open to discuss Scarlet, but you have to understand something: it takes months for any feedback to make its way into a release so don’t be surprised if a comment about the November story delivery doesn’t affect the December release (those deadlines are long past). Also, I’m not at liberty to discuss the contents of future unannounced releases, so while you may get frustrated that “we’re not listening” or that “we’re hiding information from you” the reality is much simpler. Building releases takes months, and sometimes features or other items shift dates, or we’ve had to adjust the story or release schedule due to external factors (including community feedback). I know I sound like Subdirector Blingg when I say, “We haven’t revealed X yet, but it will be featured in an upcoming release.” I’m not at libertly to divulge release schedules or story timelines outside of a current release so I can’t say much more than that.

People want more details about Scarlet. We know that. Details will be revealed in the near future and will be paced more aggressively. Until then, I hope you enjoy the game and our most recent Living World release and continue to constructively tell us what you think. Thanks.

#2109 - Nov. 13, 2013, 11:03 a.m.

smeen.4237:

Scarlet, although I do love her voice acting (I think there’s no Sylvari that sounds this good) is shallow to me just because she’s doing all of it herself. Yeah she has her alliances but there’s no interaction, no chemistry, no nothing between them. Scarlet is above all of this, she has nobody to interact with and that doesn’t do her character any good. Characters grow and develop when they interact with others, but since she’s not interacting with anyone she just stays the same. And how she is right now doesn’t work for me. I don’t even think she’s a convincing villain, she’s just a bored child to me.

Thanks for the constructive feedback. I think you’re right in that Scarlet, because she’s not often interacting with other characters, doesn’t have the same opportunities to grow as a character. She just shows up, says a few things, and then blips out. I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to play the Twilight Assault dungeon, but Scarlet has a few exchanges with Caithe that hints a bit about their respective pasts.

We’ve known about this issue for a while and have a few things in development that should flesh out her character in greater detail through a variety of methods. I can’t say when they’ll go live, only that they’re written and being built now.

smeen.4237:

Also, I would like to thank you guys personally for that recap cinematic in the latest update. I missed the assasination and it was great to see something of it, even if it was minimal. You should make these recaps more frequently, I think.

You’re welcome. To be honest, we wanted to do this sort of thing for every release but we just haven’t had the resources. I’m glad that for some people this elicited the intended response. Some folks were disappointed that we didn’t reveal more details in the cinematic, and I can understand that, That’s why we made a conscious effort to put more info in upcoming releases, so keep your eyes open.

#2115 - Nov. 13, 2013, 11:50 a.m.

Jaken.6801:

I hope we can get a more through discussion about the matter after the arc is finished. You are in the process of learning and i am courious about what you learned, which ideas you had had to be revised and what your overall vision was against how it ended up.

Yeah, we’re learning a lot about integrating story with gameplay with the two-week Living World release cadence. It’s exposing issues with our writing process, presentation, and development methods that we’re working on improving with each release.

I’ve been formulating a LW season postmortem in my head that I am looking forward to sharing internally first, and then one day discussing publicly if I’m given the opportunity.

#2140 - Nov. 14, 2013, 12:08 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I wanted to say a HUGE thank you to both the community and the press for the great support surrounding the CDI. I am so pleased to see how effective it has been in what is only the first phase of the project.

Tonight the threads will be stickied and sometime later in the week i will put up our phase 2 thread which will center on how to improve the process (such as the devs having more time to join in the discussion and topics that are a little more focused). Once we have agreed on ways to improve we will move to phase three which will be our second call for topics.

In my next post i will do a brief summary of our discussion.

Chris

Summary Bump

#2141 - Nov. 14, 2013, 12:09 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Summary:

Note this is copied and pasted from earlier in the discussion (-:

Part 1

Hi All,

First of thanks for attacking the initiative in the spirit it was laid out. The contribution thus far has been passionate, insightful and very valuable. Much of your commentary and discussions have already been raised in meetings and impacted our thought process around development moving forward already.

As laid out by the rules I will not go into specifics about future development, this said however it is very encouraging to see that much of what has been discussed matches our plans. This fact for many will not come as a revelation as it is clear to see the impact our community has already had on the game since we launched.
So I wanted to share my thoughts with you around the key discussion points (note: Story is something that I will touch upon and that Bobby will continue to discuss in greater detail)

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset. However the points raised around achievements being too time consuming is something that I do acknowledge and something we have already taken steps to address both in terms of overall time to complete and the nature of the repetitive achievements. We will continue to make strides in this area and are aware that the current time requirement also cuts in to the player’s ability to achieve goals in other aspects of the game.

Summary Bump

#2142 - Nov. 14, 2013, 12:11 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Part 2

Regarding rewards relating to the Living World content I agree that we should make greater effort to ensure that time investment is matched by the reward. We have to be careful in this regard due to constraints surrounding our economy but we have already discussed many ways of meeting this goal and maintaining the integrity of the economy. Regarding Living World Meta Achievement rewards, personally I would like to see more rewards that commemorate the accomplishments of my character and my friends, specifically pertaining to the challenges I overcame (Essentially a rite of passage I can show of). Different types of reward take different amounts of time to make and we have been working to organize our reward distribution better so player’s will see more variety moving forward. I also really like the idea of Arc based Meta Achievements.

Many of the community raised the story arc becoming fragmented due to non-related content being released in between events. Again this is something we are aware of and are in agreement with the community on. On top of this we would like to see more incremental attachment to the players in terms of story and how it relates to them through gameplay. This point was raised early on in the thread and is core to making the Living World initiative a success. Personally I feel we have improved Story and Gameplay synergy but certainly we are not where we want to be yet. As we build on the Living World platform in terms of refinement of systems and potentially new technologies it is not hard to see just how much potential the platform has and what can be done with it.

I also agree with the notion of less temporary content where it makes sense to do so. I think that an evolving world by its very nature requires ‘A time in space’ of contextual exposition but this shouldn’t be the bulk of the content. The notion of the Living World and Story Arcs centering around meaningful evolution to the geography of Tyria, the player’s role within the events and their tangible impact on the future of Tyria as an evolving world are key to our direction moving forward. The platform we have built is still in its infancy but I would hope the evolution toward this goal is becoming more and more apparent. We have been working toward more permanent content and will continue to do so.

Summary Bump

#2143 - Nov. 14, 2013, 12:12 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Part 3

Many of you raised the idea of tying the Living World more deeply into the world of Tyria and also as a deployment tool for enhancing the core of the game. Over the past year we have made many improvements to the core of the game, as part of the releases but not folded into them per se. This is a really interesting idea what we should continue to discuss in this thread and that will be a topic of discussion in the studio. Regarding drilling more into the existing content with Living World is something we have done, are doing now and will continue to evolve moving forward. Related to this many of you talked about making the changes more meaningful to the player’s life within Tyria, all I can say to this is Heck Yeah! This is at the core of what we intend to deliver with the Living World and whilst we have done some work in this area, we are not at a stage yet where we would say that this paradigm is fully functional yet. To create meaningful changes they must impact the day to day of the player and this is at the center of our design philosophy for execution in this area.

As mentioned earlier, we are still building the Living World platform and this is why the Collaborative Development plan exists because discussion of this type is key to course correction and evolution in how the platform is built.

A number of you mentioned consequences for failure. This is something we discuss a lot and is quite complex. I would ask that we continue to discuss this topic in the thread.

With this in mind I also want us to be delivering epic adventures, where we forge the future of Tyria and fight mighty foes. And whilst Bobby has and will continue to discuss the intricacies of this, I want you all to understand that this is very much part of the plan.

Another big topic that was raised was Quality of releases. The work we are doing is new to all of us and therefore we are constantly finding opportunities to improve and course correct in a live environment. This relates not only to bugs, but the understanding of the types of content our community enjoys and how much time you all have to play the content. I believe the quality of our releases are improving and will continue to do so as we hone in our own internal development practices and have a better understanding of how the Living World is performing in the live environment.
Regarding accessibility of releases some great points were brought up ranging from ideas such as a scrying pool or Hall of Memories to get caught up on previous releases. We are very aware of the problems presented by having an ongoing arc and this particular area is an ongoing topic of discussion. Regarding achievements as a method of directing player’s to content, we also agree that there are better ways to do this and you will see with the latest release some innovations in this area.

The Zerg! This is an interesting problem that we had actually fixed to an extent in an earlier release where we created a meta goal that forced players to split up into groups. I really enjoyed this and the feedback was excellent. Personally I quite enjoy the zerg sometimes in PVE ( I tend to be less of a ‘zerger’ in WvW) but I also really enjoy group play in the open world as many of you have mentioned. I would love to see more of this in the open world.

Some of you posted about your favorite releases and least favorite. It would be really cool if you have the time to post your single favorite and least favorite and the reasons why for each. This would help a lot and I will share my learning with you etc. from the posts.

I am running out of time sadly but I did want to make sure that I entered the discussion. I hope the comments have made shed some new light on our approach and thoughts and I am looking forward to enter into proper discussion now. I probably haven’t covered all the areas but no doubt you will raise any I missed (-:
I wanted to say thanks again for being part of this initiative. Personally I think its going to be awesome, it is already impacting our day to day discussion so let’s keep it up!

Summary Bump

#2144 - Nov. 14, 2013, 12:13 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Part 4

You guys raised an assumption that we care more about quantity than quality. I clarified perhaps some poor communication on my part that was if we get to the stage where we feel that we aren’t able to meet our quality bar through our current cadence then we will revisit the timing of our releases but that i believe there is still a lot we can improve in best working practices and development inefficiencies before we get to that point.

Many of you commented on some great ideas around event failure, Nike, myself and many others gave examples of this around TQ, Darkness and Dominance. We have internally already been thinking about how we would do with our own Jon P leading the charge in this area. Your support and collaboration has boosted our progress and we will update as move forward.

The Scarlet arc exposition has been to slow and we agree with this. We also know how much you all want to see more of our old lore built upon and we agree. I am looking forward to hearing your feedback around Scarlet once the arc ends.

Continued…

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#2145 - Nov. 14, 2013, 12:14 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Part 5

You also put forward which Events you liked and didn’t like and this is something we will be having a meeting on internally to discuss and drill deeper into.

Colin discussed the TV show paradigm with you. You correctly raised the importance of the real world paradigm have a system that allows the user to watch old episodes etc. This is very important and something we have and are currently discussing. I hope we can do a topic just on this paradigm at some point.

You raised how you felt that the current arc writing can be a little immature and i agree. Watch this space!

We loved Nike’s and your pioneer brainstorm. And i pointed out that i can’t talk about it which by its very nature should point toward some very exciting theory crafting (-:

We discussed rewards for Living World events and we all agreed that they are somewhat lacking and we have already set into motion changes in this area that you should see early next year!

Continued…

Summary Bump

#2146 - Nov. 14, 2013, 12:15 p.m.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Timmy F, Cesmode and many others discussed the highs and lows of zerging in the open world. I mentioned that this is something we are actively working on and whilst not perfect we can see progress in this area in the Clock Work Chaos and TQ. More evolution to come!

Content direction through achievements was raised as something that can be improved greatly. Again this is something can’t comment on currently but what i can say is that we agree that content direction is better served outside of the achievement system.

Einlanzer, Pifil, others and Colin had a long discussion about phasing where Colin laid out his thoughts and reasoning around our thoughts on phasing. Colin pointed out that phasing can’t really live within the environment of our pillars but that the conversation has been useful and that phasing certainly has its place in other types of games.

Seraph and Asuka had some awesome ideas relating to global token rewards from events that allowed users to receive items from across all of our current global reward paradigm unifying our currency in this area.

I have no doubt missed a few key areas so please forgive me and feel free to add any summaries that i have missed.

I would like to thank you all once again for all your hard work in this discussion. It has been a lot of fun and a great start. I look forward to seeing what the CDI looks like a year from now and how it has affected the game. I hope now everyone can see how this initiative will impact the game and how this is truly development.

I can’t wait for the next topic discussion and here’s to Collaborative Development, Tyria and ArenaNet’s community!

Chris

Summary Bump

#2149 - Nov. 14, 2013, 3:05 p.m.

No need to apologize it is a discussion and therefore people will have differing opinions.

Note i only bumped the summary so that folks new to the thread could get a concise version.

Chris

#2153 - Nov. 14, 2013, 5:50 p.m.

Melliarc.5870:

Subject : Pacing of the Living Story using the latest two patches as examples of what I think should and shouldn’t be done.

My biggest gripe I think with the story in the Living Story is the pacing of it. As many discussed before, me included, we’re getting too few tidbits of story per patch to make it worthwhile story-wise. So it feels like there isn’t any progress at all. The back to back releases of Tower of Nightmares and Nightmare Within are a prime example of this.

So you’re saying that the contents of each release are too light, and that you’d rather the two thematically related releases be part of a single build?

#2176 - Nov. 15, 2013, 12:01 p.m.

wookiee.4631:

Bonefield.9813:

One thing that I very much enjoyed about the monthly-ish cadence was the idea that the story could continue at any time, with new stuff being dropped in as a surprise. With the two-week cycle, it seems like there’s much less opportunity for that sort of thing, and so the progression of the story doesn’t feel as organic.

Having guaranteed updates every two weeks is great, but I’m not sure that it’s great for the story. I don’t want to speak too far from under my armchair developer hat, but I think it’d be better overall if the story pacing had more flexibility and didn’t have to be tied to things like gameplay polishing and basic feature additions. Those things are great to have on a two-week schedule, but maybe not having to make stuff fit thematically would give everyone more freedom?

That’s something I liked about the old “phase” system they had with SotMK and Lost Shores. Things could happen in the story without needing a set deadline for an update. Maybe they should revisit that system?

Some folks seem to appreciate the option to “catch up” with the story when the releases are additive.

#2198 - Nov. 16, 2013, 8:03 a.m.

Nike.2631:

So, beyond highs and lows of specific Living Story episodes, and some brainstorming on future Living Story/Living World content (I use the two terms very differently) is there anything else you’d like to hear from us? You certainly have our attention .

Hi Nike,

The current conversation is perfect really. Things will spin up up again soon when we publish the thread for discussion about how to evolve best working practices and process around the CDI on Monday. Until then have a good weekend and thanks everyone for the contribution and continued discussion.

Chris

#2225 - Nov. 20, 2013, 12:51 p.m.

Nike.2631:

Technical question: can the completion of a dynamic event be used to trigger the sending of a piece of mail (w/ attached rewards)?

For example, if an event sent you out to protect lumberjacks, could success trigger a letter being sent 30-60 minutes later that said thanks for the help and included some small number of wood planks (“Please take a few of the offcuts. Without you assistance we wouldn’t have any lumber at all…”)

So you’re talking about a time delay between completing a renown heart (or event) and receiving the letter rather than getting it instantly?

#2229 - Nov. 20, 2013, 9:54 p.m.

A mail delay is an interesting idea, at least for roleplay immersion. I’ll have to ask a designer on that. Bear in mind that there might be reasons in place why we don’t do it but I’ll ask just the same. I’m curious just as you are.

#2230 - Nov. 20, 2013, 9:58 p.m.

Nike.2631:

Is there anything you can tell us that would help us relate to your motives for this character? Something that will let us set better expectations and maybe give better feedback?

I started to reply to each question in your post but ran out of time today. SPOILER: I was in meetings.

Questions like these may be more suited for an interview since the answers can be rather long when discussing the creative process, project constraints, etc. I would like to share some insights on Scarlet and other Living World characters but I’m not sure the forums are the best place. Let me think on that for a bit.

#2242 - Nov. 25, 2013, 10:49 a.m.

Sondergaard.8469:

BobbyStein.2315:

A mail delay is an interesting idea, at least for roleplay immersion. I’ll have to ask a designer on that. Bear in mind that there might be reasons in place why we don’t do it but I’ll ask just the same. I’m curious just as you are.

I personally do not like the idea of a mail delay. To give you a few scenarios where this could run astray, say a player is playing on a limited timeframe and they go through the content, complete it, know there is supposed to be a reward but then check their mail and see no reward present.

The first thing they are going to do is email your customer support and complain that the event/heart/achievement bugged out. This creates extra workload for your customer support who is already stretching thin with more serious and legitimate issues than ones created by a design decision like this.

The second reason I would not like this change is the disconnect between completion and reward. Say I complete 2 or 3 things and the mail isn’t scheduled to arrive for an hour or two. I’m one of those players with a limited timeframe to play. I log out, and I might not log in for a few days. When I come back, where those rewards came from might not be as obvious as they would if they were delivered in the moment.

It’s a minor gripe, but the disconnect between understanding what I’m being rewarded for thanks to the time gap would be enough to be a frustration for at least a few of your players. Beyond that though, I’ve already had to wait for my reward. All the hours invested prior into achieving it should be enough. If I’m doing all the grind to get an item, I don’t want to have to wait an additional arbitrary period ‘for immersion’ to receive my reward.

tl:dr don’t fix what isn’t broken.

That was my thought. Right now people are accustomed to receiving renown heart rewards upon completion. A delay would inconvenience a lot of people who are used to the current behavior.

Might be neat to have an optional “RP” option that a player could check off in preferences that would alter certain game or UI behavior. For example, if checked it would delay mail by X minutes, maybe hide things like starbursts on the UI for people who like to explore and not be led directly to objectives like a traditional RPG, etc. Disclaimer: I have no idea how much work that would entail or if it aligns with our core design directives. I’m just thinking aloud here.

#2243 - Nov. 25, 2013, 10:51 a.m.

Nike.2631:

Nike.2631:

Is there anything you can tell us that would help us relate to your motives for this character? Something that will let us set better expectations and maybe give better feedback?

BobbyStein.2315:

I started to reply to each question in your post but ran out of time today. SPOILER: I was in meetings.

Duty calls. Perhaps later .

Questions like these may be more suited for an interview since the answers can be rather long when discussing the creative process, project constraints, etc. I would like to share some insights on Scarlet and other Living World characters but I’m not sure the forums are the best place. Let me think on that for a bit.

I’d like to think this would be an excellent venue. “Creative Process” is at the heart of the CDI as I understand it. Our ignorance of “project constraints” is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks to players bringing you workable suggestions. The untold story of creating the common thread running though so many of the Living Story episodes would be immensely revealing about the non-story demands a character like Scarlet has to rise to.

((Oh, and while its in another thread, your mini-game joke made me laugh quite hard. A good sign that talking about Scarlet doesn’t always have to be so serious!))

Agreed.

#2244 - Nov. 25, 2013, 11:05 a.m.

jsduke.6537:

1. Story bridges. I think you guys may have bitten off a little more than you can chew with the current LW story arc. It’s super huge and that makes it a poor trial run for a new game element like LW. I can’t identify a common story thread that connects the LW content we’ve had since August. In retrospect, I can see the Scarlet thread, but that doesn’t account for everything that’s happened (or at least doesn’t seem to). It’s very important that players be able to identify how current story developments come from previous story elements, and lead to future elements to establish continuity. When we think about the story, we need to be able to sense the shape of it, even if we don’t know what all of the pieces are, or what’s going to happen next. When the next “episode” of the show comes out, make sure it follows what has come before it in a recognizable way. And, when possible, make sure the resolution of the current “episode” sets up the next piece, so we can experience a sense of expectation and have fun speculating about what might happen next. (That’s how you build tension into a story.)

I think that’s a fair assessment. Some of the releases have a looser connection to the Scarlet thread than others. Some of that is due to messaging and story/character presentation in the game, and the rest is due to how we, as a group, decided on the location and gameplay needs of each release. Finding that balance of multiplayer-friendly gameplay, satisfying rewards, challenge, and captivating, character-driven story is very difficult especially when you have four teams running at once. This has been the focus of a lot of my meetings as of late. I’m working on a proposal to address the story concerns in the new year.

jsduke.6537:

1. Give us 3 Acts in each episode. So far, you’ve been pretty good at exposition and really good at the complications in Act 2 (where all the action is!). But it seems like we’re missing out on Act 3 every time. We are confronted with a new development that needs our attention, we engage the conflict in battle, and… then… we are confronted with a new development that needs our attention. No Act 3. To reprise what I’ve said above: Act 2 is great! Act 1 and 3 need some attention. From a storytelling point of view, I really think that developing the third act of each episode is going to net you the best return for your efforts at this time.

This is easier said than done since each of our LW teams is pretty small. That stated, if we’re going to embrace a more episodic delivery structure we’ll have to mold our content to fit within it. This is one of the items that’s going into my proposal.

jsduke.6537:

1. Previously, on Guild Wars 2… Episodic storytelling needs the occasional recap. Especially when the subsequent episodes can be over a month apart in some cases. We need some record of the current story arc’s progression. I think the Priory is the best place for this to happen. It is their job, after all, and they already have the facilities to make it happen. That Place of Power in the heart of the Priory? That can be the nexus where the “story so far” is accessible for review. Whatever form the recap takes, the Priory is the most appropriate agent for such a thing.

Agreed. A recap of the last release is important. We haven’t done this so far due to scoping restrictions with our current development model, but it’s become clear that we need some mechanism to fill people in on the story stuff they may have missed. We have one solution planned for next year, but getting a cinematic (if it’s feasible) or at least some conversation recaps are worthwhile if the teams can fit them in the schedule. Really, it comes down to better planning and having the available resources.

jsduke.6537:

1. I very much enjoyed the roll out of the current “Tower of The Nightmares Within” episode. The foreshadowing prior to the roll out was really cool. The initial instance and the subsequent cut-scene were perfect exposition of the current episode…. Overall, I think the ANet team is doing a fantastic job working towards some very ambitious goals. Although my interest has been waning lately, I have great confidence that GW2 is headed in the right direction with a great team of people working really hard to create a truly unique MMO experience. I may step back from the game some in the coming weeks and months, but I won’t stray far if I do, and I will definitely be keeping an eye on how the game develops.

Thanks again, for all that you do!

Thanks for the kind words.

#2247 - Nov. 25, 2013, 3 p.m.

Nike.2631:

I’m curious if you have reasons we are missing for NOT doing smaller arcs? Maybe 2 months/8 episodes as an average. I feel like maybe the Frost and Flame arc would have been stronger if, even with unresolved questions, it hadn’t been tied to the mega-arc you’ve been building. I was actually saddened to see Molten Alliance pop up in the invasions – it largely invalidated my previous sense of accomplishment in shutting down that threat.

It seems like shorter story runs would allow for more limited – and plausible – central villains. For more regular pays offs of satisfaction for players at the resolution. For chances at genuine surprise at the occasional unexpected villainous comeback.

One of the best received elements of the LS both posted and in my personal experience have been the undocumented bits of foreshadowing. The unannounced changes in the map that our dedicated corps of Player-Explorers stumble over and bring to the broader public’s attention. These might be made even more effect as catalysts for speculation if we really didn’t know who the next major villain was going to be for the next couple of months.

Having smaller story runs with a more focused narrative is something we’re discussing. One thing that we’ve learned throughout our first year of Living World updates is that the pacing of the overall story was too slow for most people.

EDIT: I just want to clarify I mean the pacing of the story and not the release cadence.

#2251 - Nov. 26, 2013, 11:15 a.m.

Arewn.2368:

In the case of slow paced story release, I feel it would help considerably if we were able to revisit past story(living story instances) at will.
I can always catch an episodes of a show I missed or want to re-watch at a later date, why can’t this be the case for the LS instances?
Same can be said for personal story missions.

We’ve heard this request a lot over the past year and are evaluating our options. We’ll share more details when we’re able.