Collaborative Development Topic- Game Modes

#1 - Oct. 28, 2013, 12:39 p.m.

Hi All,

We are now moving to the discussion phase of this initiative. The topic with the most votes in this area of the game was Game Modes (Note: The topic tally was aggregated across all Community Forums per supported languages). The Coordinators for this thread will be Jonathan Sharp.

As discussed here: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development/

First I would to lay down some rules for as we move forward regarding how we collaborate with one another:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.

2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.

3: Anger and emotion will have less impact than intelligent discussion.

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

We will be closing the thread on Monday November 4th, and shortly after we will have an open discussion about what worked and what did not in regard to the process of the first topic discussion.

Until then thank for taking the time to take part in this and I look forward to discussing the game with you.

ChrisW

P.S: it is likely that we will watch the discussion for a few days before posting.

#182 - Oct. 29, 2013, 12:03 p.m.

Just wanted to let you know that we are reading this thread but we want to keep the free flow of ideas going before chiming in. Thanks for all the great ideas and feedback!

#209 - Oct. 30, 2013, 1:55 p.m.

Phaeton.9582:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Has ANet given up on capture point PvP?

Yeah once they’ve released the new game type they’ll delete the old one

No, not necessarily. In the future, we could do a combination of game types, in the same way that Call of Duty does multiple game types, or counter strike does multiple (escort or disarm).

We’ll have to see how that pans out, based on fan feedback.

#215 - Oct. 30, 2013, 7:56 p.m.

The current thinking is that a tournament could be decided by something like (using your examples):

1st game: Capture the Flag (not saying we’d do that, but it’s an example).
2nd game: One of the Conquest maps.
3rd game: King of the Hill (not saying we’d do that, but …you know the drill).

That way there’s variety, which means teams need to be strong in multiple game types.

@SinDen: Yep, we have a lot of cool features that are being worked on right now for PvP. A lot of them are really big, and take a lot of time to develop. That’s just how things are unfortunately when it comes to those new systems. I do think that new game types, in addition to the new features, would be good though, and that’s what we’re aiming at!

#242 - Oct. 31, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

@ team sizes over 5: I know some people really like the idea of having games of 8v8 → 15 v 15, but in reality, these games are often hard to set up. I think that 5on5 is much easier to organize as a player. When I was a GW1 player, playing competitive GvG, we had many nights where we had a hard time getting all 8 people on, night after night, in order to train. A lot of competitive games have settled on the 5 person team (CS, all mobas, etc.), and it’s an easier # to organize than 8 or 15 person teams.

I think 5 is the biggest team size we’d want for organized play, and we could try smaller teams, but due to multiple reasons, teams greater than 5 would probably be too large for GW2.

@ game modes vs. other features: We can do both. It obviously takes time for both, but we don’t have to choose a new map or game type versus new features. Having said that, the way the work breaks down sometimes means that a designer is needed for a game type, with a little programmer support, while a new major feature (like new rewards), may take a lot of programmer time and designer time.

@ SHOULD WE EVEN TAKE THIS COLLABORATION THING SERIOUSLY!?!??!?!?!?: That’s up to you. We are.

@ King of the hill: We’ve actually tried it a few times internally. It usually devolves into a stalemate in the middle of the map, or one big cluster of bodies. Imagine: the middle point is the only point on the map, and both teams just run right to it…..10 people pop their elites….. there’s a 5on5, and then the game is over. Are there things you’d like to add in order to spice it up a little? IT SOUNDS GREAT…and then you play it…and it leaves a little to be desired.

@ GvG: There’s a lot of equivocation around "GvG’. Keep in mind that when we’re talking about GvG here, we’re talking about a GAME TYPE. Don’t get this confused with two guilds fighting each other for positioning on a ladder. That’s something else we can do (and want to do), and that would work for CTF, or KOTH, or GvG, or conquest, etc.

For the GAME TYPE, people seem to be asking for:

• 2 lords. If you kill their lord you win.
• There are obstacles in the way (a lot of people use the MOBA analogies of having NPC’s or towers in the way…you defeat these in order to get to the opposing guild lord).
• I assume there’s a time limit?
• Do we do VoD again to stop people from turtling?

@ Giving you guys the tools so you can just make game types yourselves: I wish we could do this. I really do. This is how counsterstrike and dota were born. I was there when it happened, as a player, and I loved it. For GW2, it takes a LOT to make a map. It takes design, scripting, a map artist, programmers, a prop artist, a sound engineer, voice over, etc. It’s not as simple as “give us your tools and we’ll do it”. It takes a lot to make a map in an MMO.

Keep posting such amazing thoughts! As John said earlier in a post, we’re here, listening to you, but we love letting you guys talk among yourselves. We don’t want to butt in and interrupt you when you guys are producing such productive conversations!

#306 - Nov. 6, 2013, 6:27 p.m.

@ 2on2/3on3: A lot of you guys really seem to like this idea. So do we. We’re looking at game types which encourage this style of play. Another thing we’re looking at it combining the size of fights with larger tactical/strategic implications, so that there is something fun going on the micro level (the actual fight) and the macro level (the map overall).

@ Moba: This plays into another idea you guys seem to be hitting on, which is a moba style game. We think the layout/flow of a moba style map could be really fun, especially when combined with something like killing enemy captains or guild lords. We’re also looking at testing something like that!

@ GvG/castle sieges: I think these can be combined in some pretty cool ways. You guys had some great points/ideas on these, so thanks for those.

@ Lords and protecting them/not protecting them: Players seem to be pretty split down the middle on this one. Some players want the “play” of protecting their Lord and keeping it alive, while other want it to be more like a MOBA nexxus – something you can’t actively heal/protect. We’ll have to try that one both ways to see what has better play to it. I suspect it’s the former.

@ Not having RPG elements in our game when compared to most MOBAS: Keep this in mind. It’s what gives the mobas their flow/pace. We need to build mechanics that change the pacing/feel of the map in a similar way, without hampering the fun players have. I think you get the same thing out of an RTS, but in a different way. Both sides start off with few resources and weak units. Over time they build up in both areas, and the middle/late game are very different than the early game.

I’ll keep looking for other things to respond to in this thread. Thanks for all the feedback/ideas guys.

#311 - Nov. 6, 2013, 7 p.m.

Jayce.5632:

Capture The Flag

Win Conditions:

• Capture 7/7 Enemy Flags (Includes 1 Hard Flag or flag located closest to spawn )
• Most Flags Captured When Timer Expires
• Most Flags Saved > Capture Draw
• Most Kills > Save Draw > Capture Draw

p.s. Map terrain and thoughtful flag placement makes all the difference. Can provide more details to the above if necessary.

So a few things on CTF:

We found that CTF works best as a “push” the flag, not “cap it by bringing it back to my base”. This means you have to push through the enemy team, and since you need to push it into their spawn, it means they can more easily defend a cap.

If it’s “cap” it by bringing it back to your base, there are often cases where the capturing team gets a flag past a certain point on the field, and no one on the defending team can catch up with them in order to prevent the cap.

We tried various mechanics, like making it so that the flag carrier couldn’t use skills, or they had to use “flag” skills, or they were just slowed down greatly, but in most of those instances, players didn’t have as much fun when carrying a flag. You can see some of this carried over to Spirit Watch and some of the issues it has.

Just some things to think about.

#366 - Nov. 8, 2013, 6:31 p.m.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Hi Jonathan,

I agree 100% regarding CTF. Push is far superior than pull. Rift had a CTF map and I had repeated to them that they needed to change the format from capture the flag to push the flag.

The analogy I used is this: how much fun would it be if, in football, the ball was snapped to the quarterback and he ran away from the line of scrimmage to score?

Hah! We use the same analogy internally….because in american football, you have to take the ball THROUGH the other team, you don’t run away from them.

#368 - Nov. 8, 2013, 6:46 p.m.

RockSteady.7123:

I don’t like MOBAs nor do I wish to play them again. It is just something that does not sit well with me but I think that if the devs find ways to make it a Guild Wars 2 MOBA-style pvp mode, instead of a MOBA Guild Wars 2-style mode, I suppose it wouldn’t be too bad. Just be careful not to stray too much from what makes Guild Wars 2 what it is, which can really be said for any mode that is decided on really. I think the flow and intensity of the GW2 combat system is really what makes this game unique and I would hate to suddenly be thrust into a pvp mode where the combat suddenly becomes secondary to some overarching objective.

Either way I have confidence in the devs and I can’t wait for whatever it is you guys decide to release! Yay for pvp!

Nods Good point. We want to retain that feeling that you currently get in GW2’s combat in any new game mode we introduce.

#369 - Nov. 8, 2013, 6:47 p.m.

@ multiple people who commented on progression, ala moba games: We agree. While I think that leveling up and acquiring items/skills/gold is core to moba games, I think we can do something different which fits an MMO. I think we can give you guys the cool aspects of an MMO + the some aspects of a moba which fit our game well.