Do you think 7 slots is enough?

#0 - Nov. 1, 2010, 8:44 p.m.
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I was bored and found my self doing diffrent builds based off the current skills

I think 8th slot would be perfect just make it even because if you use 1-5 (any 1-5 key can be used for skills or pots) and the two mouse buttons and the tab that's 8 keys for skills.

I didn't like the slot system at first when bash mentioned it on the forums but over time I started to like the idea specially after blizzcon I just think we could use an extra slot.

I know they want us to make choices but if we can have a total of 97 billion builds it wouldn't hurt just to add an extra slot. They can still keep the 7 tiers just allow the 8th skill slot be a bonus slot you can unlock at lv 30 which would be the half way mark level wise.

#10 - Nov. 2, 2010, 1:48 a.m.
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Q u o t e:
In a somewhat off-topic tangent my main concern with the Skill System currently is that it seems they removed point-requisites from tiers, meaning that you can choose Tier2 skills without any points spent in Tier1, which may lead to point-hoarding again, the very thing they started out to avoid when first they iterated the Skill Trees.

#23 - Nov. 2, 2010, 3:05 a.m.
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Q u o t e:
am I going to be able to continuously respec my skills?


Q u o t e:
By "continously" I mean three or four times before I hit level 26. And the number is so few because I already have a plan for what I want to do.

Can you show me this plan?
#31 - Nov. 2, 2010, 5:13 a.m.
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Respecs aren't nailed down, but it's very likely they'll be introduced through questing and one awarded to you. So that's one for each difficulty (probably).

I think it's awesome people are trying to plan out builds already. I think it's crazy to think about going through half of the game without taking a single skill. I'll admit I haven't tried it, but I can't ... I don't know, it just doesn't really seem doable. This isn't Diablo II. I remember going 20+ levels before spending anything.

If your goal is to level as fast as possible, I don't see how point hoarding until level14 would actually grant you any benefit with the ability to respec. Even if it's not until later. Having spectral blade until you can respec into teleport isn't going to kill it for you. Not having a skill for the first 14 levels, I think, might.

When I have some free time (haha) I'll try to test it and see how well I do with no skills and no traits. Ugh. Sounds painful.
#58 - Nov. 3, 2010, 8:24 p.m.
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Q u o t e:
I'll try to test it and see how well I do with no skills and no traits. Ugh. Sounds painful.

I gave this a shot today. First I picked a barbarian, it's my go-to character, which in hindsight was probably dumb because being melee it's likely going to get along much better with no skills, but also the build in question (why I was testing this) was a wizard.

Keep in mind this play experience is based on ignoring skills and traits, and simply equipping items found or purchased. This is something that I argue is non-optimal, and so I'm testing it to prove a point, but hopefully in an objective way.

Ok, so with the barbarian. Start the game with sword and board, and this takes 1-2 hits (usually 1) for the softer zombies and 4-6 for the tougher ones. At level 2 I found another one hander (basic low dps club) and started dual wielding. This helped a bit. Finally found my first piece of armor halway through level 3. Pants! At some point I was back in town and was able to (barely) afford a new broad axe to replace the mediocre club I had picked up. And then I realized I could have bought a better weapon, but now had almost no gold. Dual wielding with some style now anyway, and hitting quite a bit faster as the APS of the club it replaced was pretty low. Venturing out I ran into my first champion (one strong guy with a couple affixes, and a pack of his friends that take on the same affixes), this time it was a Molten Teleporter. Grotesques. Tough because melee'ing molten means I'm standing in the fire trail and taking damage regardless of his actual attacks. I managed to take out two of the smaller guys, then died. First death at level 3. Almost died again trying to take out the remaining two (one of which was the actual champion), but prevailed. Plodded along until level 5 where I died participating in a random quest event. Managed to use a potion, but it wasn't enough. Died. Ran into another champion group, Carrion Bats, molten teleporter again!? No matter, they were fairly easy. Then I ran into a miniboss (?) and survived with only a few health. It was a close fight. Plodding along, then I ran into another champion pack which were clearly bugged as they one shot me every time. After throwing my corpse against their attacks five more times I decided to stop.

So, I wouldn't say that it was a tough experience, the melee nature of the barbarian and built-in toughness made it not too terrible. But keep in mind that was only until level 6. I'm sure going to 14 would have been increasingly painful. Using skills I'm positive I could have avoided all of those deaths (barring the bugged champions at the end).

Ok, so I swapped to a wizard. So again, playing, just wanding everything to death (weee), until I found a sword. Started slicing things in the face, not much difference attacks-per-monster wise, I just prefer it to wands. I ran into a medium sized pack of zombies aaaaand, dead. Level 2, first death. After finally clearing that pack out I was lucky enough to have a rare spawn, an easy rare, and lo and behold he dropped a very nice wand for me. I'm one-shotting everything at this point and I'm going along fairly quickly. No real trouble until I hit level 5 and start running into more champion packs, and a few more random quest events. All of which either kill me at least once or take me within an inch of my life. Definitely not too fun and a real slowing effect in my attempts to rush levels.

So I think the takeaways here are sort of muddled due to a very limited (and potentially flawed) test. I talked to Jay briefly about point hoarding yesterday and he brought up a couple good points. First of all is that the balance of availability of respecs should be that there is no incentive to hoard points. Hoarding points isn't fun, and if that means having respecs be more common, so be it. I think the better point he made though was that runes have a dramatic effect on skills, and one that likely can't be fully realized by theoretical builds. An example he gave was Magic Missile is a tier 1 skill, but fully runed will rapid fire projectiles easily make it end game viable, and cheaper to cast than other higher tier skills. With skill points alone very few early skills can boast late game efficiency, but high level runes can sometimes (not always) change the rules.

-ed Also sort of on that point, there is always one rune for every skill that boosts flat damage or efficiency of the base skill. You're never forced to keep the rune slot unused because you don't want to change the base skill into something else. I had seen some confusion on that.

Of course the availability of respecs always brings up the question of rerolls and necessity of multiple characters. Personally I think you're going to want to have a PvE and PvP character of each class anyway, but beyond that we have plans for players that like and want to re-roll, and to reward that in a tangible way.

Anyway, hope this was enlightening to some degree. The game is still a lot of fun to play, even in such sub-optimal circumstances. It's been a while since I've just played from the start of the game and there's some really awesome stuff going in.
#89 - Nov. 4, 2010, 1:14 a.m.
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Q u o t e:
Any chance of a semi-regular "play of the day" type post from you? Something along the lines of what you just wrote up, to keep us in a state of high excite.

Pwetty pwease?

I'm glad people liked it. Wasn't really the intent. :)

It's an idea, I'm not sure how long it would be interesting considering the few details I could divulge about quests, areas, locations, etc. I don't know, maybe it's workable though. Different classes and builds... I'm sure I could write something much better than what I did if the goal was to actually recap a play experience.

I'll mull it over.
#95 - Nov. 4, 2010, 1:35 a.m.
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Q u o t e:
Elaborate! And how long did each of these runs take you?

I've never seen it before. Which isn't saying much, I haven't played main quest line from the start for a while. It may have just been a pre-determined rare. I might have seen or thought of the name color incorrectly.

I'd say I spent about 45 minutes on each? Guessing. I'm sure someone will attempt to work out the XP curve from that. And I say go for it Charlie! (because it will be wrong)
#98 - Nov. 4, 2010, 1:51 a.m.
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Q u o t e:
What's the point in creating all of the game content they are making then, which is what most of the time they spend making.. if you're hardly going to see it due to respecs?

Respecs don't give you level 14 gems in all your gear. Or the gear itself, for that matter. Respecs don't change the acquisition of loot.

Let's go a different direction though and I'll hit that note I mentioned of giving people a reason to roll another character of the same type.

What if, say, there were a series of achievements per class... This is totally hypothetical, I'm making it up right now so maybe it's dumb ...but, say there's some limited amount of this special achievement per class. Let's say you play a witch doctor and reach level 60 with it and get the first one of these special achievements. The achievement grants you +1 trait point for all future witch doctors you create. That's a pretty nice boost. So sometime later you make another witch doctor, start off with an immediate +1 trait, and then hit 60 with that one too, and hey hey! you get the next special achievement. Another +1 trait points for all witch doctors you make, so now you're sitting pretty with +2 trait points on witch doctors your create. And it could go from there to some limit. Or something. So maybe that's a pretty good incentive? And ... one that's probably broken since I'm not a designer, but anyway! I think it gives some idea of potential incentives to keep rolling characters of the same type.

Thinking about downsides to this a couple come to mind:
Feel "forced" to get all the achievements just to stay competitive in arena (or maybe literally forced)
Old characters don't gain the bonus so it may make them feel less exciting to play - Which I just realized could be fixed by just giving it to all your characters of that class type. Not sure why I thought that would be a bad idea
Might discourage play of multiple classes/encourage sticking with just one until all achieves gained

Anyway, I don't want to spend a bunch of time speculating on these things. Although I'm sure I could. ;) Was just an example.