Not happy with Thorns of the Invoker set!

#1 - April 15, 2015, 11:04 p.m.

Please make it craftable or just disable it until it's fixed.

Update:
My suggestion for the set update

Thorns of the Invoker

Has 3 items now: bracers, belt and an amulet.

Amulet
Primary:
Empty socket

Secondary:
Reduces damage from ranged attacks by 9-10%.
Reduces damage from melee attacks by 9-10%.

Bracers
Primary:
Critical Hit Chance Increased by 4.5-6.0%.

Secondary:
Reduces damage from ranged attacks by 9-10%.
Reduces damage from melee attacks by 9-10%.

Belt
Primary:
+120–140 Resistance to All Elements.

Secondary:
Reduces damage from elites by 10-15%.

Set bonuses
(2) Set:
Reduces damage from ranged attacks by 10%.
Reduces damage from melee attacks by 10%.
Reduces damage from elites by 15%.

(3) Set:
Increases damage against elites by 15%.
Enemies that hit you suffer a feedback blast, dealing 500% highest elemental weapon damage to itself and nearby enemies and add "Thorns" stack. Each "Thorns" stack will increase feedback damage by 100% for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times (2500% feedback damage with 5 stacks).

Tyvalir

Community Manager

#3 - April 18, 2015, 8:17 a.m.

04/15/2015 11:11 AMPosted by Taganov
Would LOVE to see a rework though.

The Thorns of the Invoker set actually came up during Westmarch Workshop's interview with one of our designers, Wyatt Cheng. Here's what he said (with the occasional linguistic quirks carefully omitted):

WYATT: We've basically been trying to err away from totally passive playstyles, and ... I guess the question we've been asking ourselves is "What is the fantasy of being a Thorns player?" I think back to D2 and you have your Golem and you've probably been casting Amplify Damage and playing Necro and you have Thorns... That's one common way to go... And I think that the Amplify Damage kept things to be somewhat active, but at the same time, I think a big part of the fantasy is that I can stand there and not doing everything and the monsters just kill themselves attacking me. So it's kind of like a power fantasy at that point, where you're just like, "I am so amazing that monsters die in my presence."

NEINBALL: "I have everything, you have nothing. Go, my minions!"

WYATT: Right. And so one of the things that we've been talking about as we reexamine Invoker's is: is that the fantasy that we want? If that's the fantasy we're trying to fulfill, realistically this set is not allowed to be a top tier set, because there's no way that we would have a top tier, highly competitive at the highest Greater Rift set that involved a completely passive gameplay style. So we're like, okay, if this is the fantasy that we're meeting, is that the right way to go? Should we design it so that it's viable for like, say, Torment 6 farming, but not viable for the [most challenging content]. And that's counter to a lot of our other philosophies lately where, when we revisit a set, we try to make sure it is something that can reach the highest levels, you know what I mean? So that's kind of Step 1 is, what is the player fantasy, and is it me doing nothing?

And then another option is to say, "Well, no, that's not really the fantasy, the fantasy is just me being durable, me doing something active, and the monsters killing themselves against me." ... Well Invoker's can be used by everybody, so if it's going to be me doing something active, it can't be something that's class-specific. ... What active, non-class specific action can we do? And of course, we start looking at ... well obviously it will be spenders and generators and stuff like that. ... [If] we're doing stuff like that on other [class sets] - is that appropriate here? And so we were looking at stuff like that.

And the final [idea] as we were looking at Invoker's is... I don't know if you guys have seen this or tried to make a Thorns set work, but there's a lot of monsters who actually don't attack you that aggressively... and there is nothing more annoying, especially at the current power level, like... Let's say ... like 98% of your damage is coming from Thorns. And if a monster just refuses to attack you, and you're hitting it with ... Poison Dart ... or Shield Bash or whatever, and you're doing almost none of your potential damage waiting for that monster to attack you, that's actually really annoying. So ... it looks like we're going to have to integrate a Taunt effect or something into it. Ideally, it would be like D2 where you're getting a pet to be Taunted. But again, this is a non-class specific set, so... Anyway, those are kind of the general thoughts we have on Invoker's.

Wyatt also invited Neinball and Leviathan to share what they thought the fantasy is behind this set. The two had some awesome ideas, and I'd love to hear (and pass on) your ideas about it as well. What, for you, is the fantasy behind the Thorns of the Invoker set?

Tyvalir

Community Manager

#57 - April 21, 2015, 5:51 a.m.

04/19/2015 12:37 AMPosted by SlackerRhys
And do check out this thread... "A Game of Thorns"... There is a bunch of us who have been playing thorns for some time...

Already got your back. :) That thread is definitely a bastion of feedback and we’ve been keeping an eye on it for some time.

On that note, I'll also be forwarding on some great posts shared by folks here (including but not limited to presence, illPixel, Giasumaru, ninZU and yourself, just to name a few). Thanks to those who posted constructively!

Tyvalir

Community Manager

#74 - April 22, 2015, 4:07 a.m.

04/17/2015 06:20 PMPosted by MindReeder
Why is it the fantasy that YOU want????

Shouldn't it be...what the PLAYERS want?

Wyatt was simply speaking from one perspective that every developer must consider: “does this support the intended vision for and goals of the game?” Of course, another perspective a developer must consider is whether or not something will be enjoyable to play. It’s important to consider each perspective, and it’s not always easy to find a design that satisfies both. :)

Also, just in case you missed this in my previous post:

Wyatt also invited Neinball and Leviathan to share what they thought the fantasy is behind this set. The two had some awesome ideas, and I'd love to hear (and pass on) your ideas about it as well. What, for you, is the fantasy behind the Thorns of the Invoker set?

Bold for emphasis.

If you have any thoughts, please feel to share them! Not sure where to begin? Here are some questions that might help as you brainstorm:

As mentioned above, what do you feel the fantasy of the Set is?
Is the playstyle you envision active or passive? Depending on your answer, how would you change the Set to fit this playstyle?
Should it be class-exclusive or useful for all classes? What mechanics would you incorporate that best fit your choice?
Should the Thorns mechanic be reworked, as Jahor suggests? If so, how would you change it and how would the Set incorporate those changes?
AleisterB brought up the fact that this Set synergizes with Sanguinary Vambraces, and SlackerRhys mentioned some items that provide Thorns damage. What Legendary or Set items would you create, or how would you rework existing ones, to better tie in with your idea for the fantasy of Invokers?
Finally, as Foz brings up (and just for fun), what might the flavor text of the Set look like, and what parts of franchise lore would you add to it?